Matt Picheny Shares His Ultimate Backstage Guide to Passive Investing and Success

Pamela Bardhi
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of underdog today I have an amazing guest here with me Matt, how are you, my friend?

Matt Picheny
I’m awesome. How are you doing? Pamela?

Pamela Bardhi
I’m doing awesome. You know, it’s crazy times in the world right now. But you know, thankfully, all is well in my world. And how are you doing now?

Matt Picheny
Everything’s good. Everything’s good in my world, just trying to avoid a little virus here and there. But besides that, life is good.

Pamela Bardhi
I love it. So I’m going to start you off with one of my favorite questions, which is what inspired you on your journey to where you are today, Matt? And you’ve done quite a bit. I mean, in the real estate realm, you’re like, incredible. Tell me,

Matt Picheny
What happened to me is very interesting. You know, if you think back to where you were in 2001, I was working in New York City, I had my own digital marketing agency, and the.com bubble had burst. All of my clients were not spending money on digital marketing stuff, and my business was imploding. So that was not going very well. At that time. It just so happened that the landlord where I was living, calls me up and tells me I’ve got 90 days to get out. I’m in New York City with an imploding business and trying to figure out what am I going to do for my living situation. So I wanted to stay in New York, but trying to find a place in New York, with essentially no job and you know, the financials on the business did not look good.

This was like Mission Impossible. Like I didn’t know how this was ever gonna, what was I going to do? Well, it turns out, I got a job. A client of mine offered me a job, Showtime, the cable television channel wanted me to come in the house. So I went into the house and I was going to rent I wanted to rent an apartment on the Upper West Side because I love the Upper West Side of Manhattan. It was my favorite place. When I had originally moved to the city I’d lived there was, you know, that’s where I wanted to be. What ended up happening was my sister lived up in Washington Heights.

And for those of your listeners who don’t really know, Manhattan, that well, it’s way, way, way, way, way north. She saw a note on a bulletin board for an apartment co-op for sale. I actually ended up buying that Co-Op. So it was less expensive than the rental in the Upper West Side was definitely not my choice of place to live. But it seemed like the right thing to do. Two and a half years later, I sold that apartment, and I saw my initial investment, my down payment, quadruple. And it was like a light bulb moment for me like, wow, what just happened? What’s with this real estate thing?  How do I do that again?

So I then took the profits from that and bought a place on the Upper West Side, which is where I wanted to live, you know, the whole time. And then I started looking for other opportunities to invest in real estate. And that’s kind of what started the whole thing and then went on from there.

Pamela Bardhi
That is awesome. It’s crazy, those lightbulb moments. Like where you just get them in, you’re like, I know what I’m supposed to do that was like me and flips. Like I had two restaurants at the time that I started flipping houses and I’m like, at $6,000 profit on the first deal. Yeah, let’s keep doing this. Keep replicating this. And then I like sold and leased by restaurants and just went all in and led development stuff. I was like, No, it’s amazing when those moments come. Because I’ll tell you firsthand that when I was in the restaurant space. And I saw these real estate developers come my way.

I literally thought that they were drug dealers because like, it was like Friday and they were like, Oh, we just came from golfing. We’re going to take the weekend off and maybe even Monday and they’re in their Mercedes Benz and like all these. And I’m just like, I didn’t know like life could operate that way to me as an immigrant coming in. In this country and being raised by immigrant parents all you know is like you physically having to work hard to prove that you’re actually working hard to prove your success levels. So I never heard before that the concept of making your money works for you. And like real estate investing and all these things and then I started looking into it.

I was like the most, the richest people in the world have their hands in real estate somehow. So it’s incredible that you had that lightbulb moment. And then after that, what was your first investment after purchasing? Well making those two purchases, and then after that, because you’ve gotten into basically like, multifamily investing. Which is the number one thing that everyone wants to learn how to invest in.

Matt Picheny
Yeah, so I mean, there was a bunch of steps between the multifamily and I’ll briefly go through them with you. So the first real estate investment that I did, because those two were primary residences. So I never really considered them invest, but they kind of I don’t really consider them that much of an investment. But my first purchase was an investment property. A property in Northwest Connecticut when I bought a piece of land and eventually built a house there. And the initial thought there was that it was going to be a vacation home, actually. And it ended up being a full-time rental for a number of circumstances that were happening in my personal life.

I had met the woman who I ended up marrying her parents had a place on the other side of the state of Connecticut. We could go there and hang out a lot of the time. There was just an opportunity to rent it. And there was demand more demand than I had anticipated. That was a rental property. Then we bought a place in Brooklyn, my wife was pregnant. So our family was growing. We had a little one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan, which was great. And I had to leave my beloved upper west side and move to Brooklyn and we bought a townhouse. This time, I got a two family house. So I did what is now traditionally known in a lot of real estate circles as a house hack. I didn’t know what that term was.

Back, then I just the numbers seem to make sense because the one unit that was rented the rent on that was more than just 50% of the mortgage. So we got the other half of the house and paid the mortgage bill, and we’re paying less than what the renters were paying. They were actually also getting a great deal for them. We got a great deal on this place when we bought it. So we did that. And then my wife got approached completely out of the blue about a year later with an amazing job opportunity. But it wasn’t in New York City. It was in Miami, Florida. We decided to go ahead and move to Miami. We had a one-year-old kid at the time. And we moved to Miami. That’s when I left my corporate job.

So I had been working remember I mentioned earlier at Showtime. And then I went into really the advertising world here in New York. And worked at a number of different agencies for about an 18-year career sort of climbing the corporate ladder. But was eventually a vice president, we moved to Miami, and I left the corporate world behind I was sort of burned out from it. When I moved down to Miami, I thought maybe I would do it. I interviewed at a couple of places, but they were all really small agencies. In New York, I was managing teams of like 100 people. In Miami, there were like maybe 10 people in the whole agency.

So it was just on a very different scale wasn’t the right thing. I was burned out after working crazy hours in New York for such a long time. And I had been doing real estate as a hobby at this point for 10 years. And I said you know what, I really want to try to make a goal of this. So the first six months of me trying to make a go of doing real estate full time, I was trying to flip properties. My idea was flipping properties, doing some buying holds, maybe holding on to some of those flips. Trying to do some like tax liens and deeds and just kind of like feeling it all out.

And what I found for me and my lifestyle and where I lived in Miami. Also, it just didn’t work to really have a flipping business to replace the income that I had been making effort, you know, a career in advertising. I would need to have like a construction company and have millions of contacts and really be doing so much volume. It just didn’t make sense to me. And I didn’t feel comfortable in Miami, the pricing was for the types of things that I wanted to do was just way too high. So I was flipping some properties out of state and there was a bunch of things going on.

But I had always wanted to go bigger. When we first bought the place in Brooklyn, I saw what our portion of the mortgage was. I said you know what, wow, this is great if we ever moved. When we did, we rented out our unit, we were making really nice cash flow. I had wanted to buy another townhouse in Brooklyn. But I didn’t have the amount of capital a property a townhouse in Brooklyn. You know, we’re talking seven figures here and so I didn’t have that kind of capital to go ahead and buy something. And I didn’t know about a thing that I learned about when I was in Miami.

While I was doing all these things I had a lot of time listening to podcasts and reading books. And just really immersing myself in real estate and I heard someone on a podcast mention this thing called syndication. I had never heard of before and syndication for any of your listeners who aren’t sure what that is. It’s when a bunch of investors come together and pool their money together actually their resources. Because you also couldn’t leverage each other’s balance sheets and experience and capital to get otherwise unobtainable assets. You know, the first place that I ended up purchasing was a 132 unit multifamily property, almost $10 million that I never would have been able to do that on my own.

But because I was able to leverage that collective if you will, I was able to go ahead and do that. So I heard about syndication and I started learning more researching it finding out about it. I went to a seminar that was run by these guys that I love that do seminars. And it was more of like a 30,000 foot level of syndication, talking about the legalities of it. Talking about how you could do it for apartments or you can do it for assisted living facilities. There was someone who was a geothermal engineer and she wanted to create a geothermal power source. She was trying to syndicate that I mean like you can syndicate basically anything. And what blew my mind when I went there was I already knew what syndications were. Because I had already been involved in syndications without realizing it.

So my background when I moved to New York, I moved to New York from Florida originally to pursue a career in theatre. And I was a professional actor for many years. My wife, who I met much later, also happens to be in the theatre, she works on the business side.  We’ve been fortunate enough to invest in some Broadway shows, some of them have not done well. Some of them have been massive hits, which is exciting. And those are done or the vast majority of them are done as a 506 C reg D filing, which I knew as I was filling out the paperwork at say 506. But I didn’t know what that was. I didn’t know those were called syndications until I went to the seminar.

And they started talking about 506 B and 506. C, and PPM and subscription agreements. I’m like, Oh, this is just like the Broadway shows as I can, you know, lightbulb, that’s when I got involved. And I started investing first passively, I wanted to be active. But it takes a while took me two years to get that first deal that I was talking about. But building relationships and building trust with brokers. Some guy from you know, we ended up moving to Boston, which is where I met you. We had ended up moving to Boston and the deal that my first deal ended up losing right after we moved to Boston, and it was in Kansas City.

Someone from Kansas City and this guy from Miami, who then just moved to Boston is coming. And he’s gonna buy a $10 million property as the broker, you’re concerned. Who is this person? Can they actually, you know, close? Do they have a track record? Because otherwise, as a panel, I mean, your commercial real estate agent. These transactions are large ticket items. But there’s also with the due diligence and everything, you’re talking about 6090 days. If the deal falls apart, they can’t come to the finish line because they can’t raise the capital for it. That’s a big, big problem. So for me to develop our relationships with brokers and property managers. And gaining their trust took a bit of time to learn what I was doing. So I was investing passively in multifamily syndications.

So my portfolio now I have over 1000 units that I’m invested in two-thirds of that portfolio are deals that I’m a limited partner in. And then 1/3 are deals that I happen to be a limited partner in as well because I always put my money in my own deals, but then I’m a general partner. And then it’s not that I own 1000 units completely, it’s fractional ownership. I invest in will buy a 200 unit property, and maybe I’ll have 5% or 10% of the ownership of it or something like that, just depending on the size and what my role is.

But so two-thirds of my portfolio are passive deals that I invest in with other people that I’ve gotten to trust and know. And feel good about it, which is really important, because you’re giving them money, and you have very little control over these deals as an investor. But if you feel comfortable with them, I think that it can be a very wise investment. So I do that. And then I also run some of my own investments, and I have investors who invest in those with me,

Pamela Bardhi
That is awesome. I love the trajectory and how it’s like spanned out one thing I didn’t know was that you were an actor before. Oh my god. So let’s reel it back a little bit. So what did you want to be when you grew up?

Matt Picheny
I wanted to be an actor. I was a professional actor for five years and I was in professional productions across the United States. I’ve actually performed in every major city in the continental US and it was awesome. I’m also a little bit of a geeky nerdy guy and I also really like computers. So I started tinkering around with computers. And so I know the restaurant business, just like you were talking about earlier because I used to work in the restaurant business. Because I was a waiter in between mean acting gigs, I didn’t really love it. And the hours were really great.

So I ended up doing website development and digital marketing-type projects in between acting gigs. And that’s when I had the opportunity. There was so much work at that time during this was the heyday of the dot coms that I was able to create my own boutique agency. Doing that, which is sort of the story that we started off with.

Pamela Bardhi
That’s so cool. And so who was like your biggest inspiration growing up?

Matt Picheny
That’s a really good question. And I admired so many people, when it comes to acting as Dustin Hoffman, a lot of like, character actors. I was never can’t tell. If you’re just listening to the audio or you’re just seeing me on video, but I’m a short dude. I’m like, five, five. So I was never gonna be like the leading man-like kind of guy. I was always gonna be the character actor. Those are the people like Dustin Hoffman, like Billy Crystal, like the people who are sort of masters of the craft. I used to love Eric but Dozier and this is before he became really well known. Somehow, we had some bootleg VHS VCR.

Remember those VHS tapes of him doing shows in New York. He used to do these shows where he would do monologue after monologue. And he would change character, like vocally and physically. He wrote all of these, and they were brilliant. I used to love to watch him. But these were people who were, I mean, I was just really into the craft of acting, which is why I wanted to be a stage actor. You know, there’s an old saying that at least they used to say back then I haven’t heard it in years.

But they used to say, Phil makes you famous TV makes you rich. And the stage makes you an actor. I don’t mean to disparage people like Brad Pitt, who’s an amazing actor on stage and screen. And there’s just so many others I could just name you to know, Matt Damon. So many people that I love are great at their craft, but I just really liked the stage and wanted to do that. So that’s what I did.

Pamela Bardhi
I love it. So the productions you’ve performed in every single major city in the US. Yeah, what was the performance?

Matt Picheny
What were the shows? So I did a lot of different shows. I’m gonna tell you the truth. The truth is, I wanted to be a rock star. Okay. I wanted to be a rock star. I love music. And I wanted to be a rock star. And I used to listen to you know, rock and roll. Then towards the end of my high school career of bands, as I mean, I was listening to like you to that in excess. Then like Nirvana came out when I was graduating high school and my Bose into the grunge scene. But I was never cool enough to be a rock star. So I did musical theatre.

Pamela Bardhi
Oh, you’re totally a rock star. Britney Spears.

Matt Picheny
Oh. So I love musical theatre too. I’m not disparaging musical theatre. I loved it. But I was more into just like music as a whole and acting. So obviously musical theatre is where those two meet. And I moved to New York to pursue to go to a musical theatre conservatory called AMDA, the American musical and dramatic Academy. And I walked in there and I didn’t know who Stephen Sondheim was. Everybody looked at me like I had three heads like, how does this kid not know who Stephen Sondheim is. I knew who Andrew Lloyd Webber was. But I didn’t really know a lot of the greats and I learned all of that in that school. Like I learned who all these people were. It was awesome.

I really enjoyed it and had a blast doing it. But I also enjoy what I do now. And the cool thing about what I do know is that I’m able to still be involved in theatre. Because as an investor we were able to invest in a bunch of shows we invested in Hamilton, which was a massive hit. Then with my wife, we’ve CO produced a couple of shows on Broadway. So we CO produced Moulin Rouge and American utopia. And so when we moved back to New York, in August of 2021. We got to go to the Tony Awards, and we won two Tony Awards. So we got Yeah, so well, you didn’t know it because I was in Boston.

And it was this just happened a few months ago when we moved back. I got on right over there. But we got to Tony for American utopia. We got a special Tony Award because it’s David Byrne. Talk about like, what I love David Byrne, the lead singer for the talking heads who I idolized in high school, doing a show on Broadway. But it wasn’t a traditional shell. It’s almost more of a whole concept around it and everything but it’s not a traditional musical. So it got a special Tony Award because it wasn’t eligible for regular for like Best Musical. And then Moulin Rouge swept the Tonys with 10 Tony Awards, including Best Musical, so it was awesome.

So I get to still be involved in the theatre and that’s what my wife does nine to five she’s On the business end of theatre. But sometimes we join forces and CO produces stuff here and there. And it’s really fun. That’s why I have a book that’s coming out. The title of it is called Backstage guide to real estate. Because it’s tying in sort of my theatre, my passion for the arts, my passion for the theatre, and my background in the theatre. But also, it’s like the backstage because I’m kind of like pulling the curtain back and showing people what’s going on.

So a lot of the book tells the narrative of the story of my journey. And through that teaches people 60 different real estate terms are defined throughout the book through telling fun and interesting stories. It was important to me to make this a fun, interesting, good read. And there are also 18 Keystone concepts that I teach along the way that shifted my mindset and things that I learned along the way.

Then at the end of the book, there’s a section called the backstage toolbox. Which really gets into someone who may want to become a passive investor. The questions that you’d want to answer like how to look at a deal, which is there’s three things, the sponsor the market. And the deal, and questions to ask for all three of those. And get into some nitty-gritty on like cap rates, and rent growth and all that kind of crazy stuff.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that. I mean, I’m gonna check it out myself, because I’ve mainly been like flips that’s invested in all my own deals and all of that. Like I haven’t gone large scale on multifamily deals, and it’s something that I truly want to do. And I’d really love to ask your opinion on what you think is about to happen with the market. Because I’m seeing private equity invest heavily into multifamily. And as well as buying out small businesses and pulling out of stocks. So what is your opinion about what’s about to happen in 2022?

Matt Picheny
Well, let me pull out my crystal ball here, it’s looking kind of cloudy. I don’t know I can’t I have a hard time making predictions. But I will make a prediction in a second, but not a prediction, but some directional stuff. But the kind of investing that I like to do, I invest in cash-flowing properties. And this is one of the things that I talk about in the book. Because the real estate market, just like the economy moves in cycles, there ups and there’s downs. As long as you’re cash flowing, you’re not going to have to sell when you’re in a down. And that’s the key. My dad taught me that when I bought my first apartment. He told me the most important thing, he says you never lose money in real estate if you never have to sell.

If you’re never in a position where you have to sell, you just don’t sell at a loss, you hold on to it, and then you wait. So everything that I buy has cash flow so that even if the economy goes down, we’re okay. But based on what’s going on, we’ve had 10 years of the Fed pumping money into the economy. Which should have devalued the dollar and pushed inflation up, but it really didn’t, at least not yet. And then you had COVID, where even more money was pumped into the system. So you’ve got the Fed, you just got all this money that’s been generated.

It’s not really backed by anything. So one would tend to believe that something like that, at some point, will cause inflation. If you are invested in things like real estate, as inflation goes up, those asset prices will go up. It will go up with inflation, so it should be protected. Also, interest rates are still at really, really low, you know, in the mid threes right now, which is insane. Even in 2018, I was closing on deals that are above 5%. So if you can lock in long-term debt at really low rates of a tangible asset, you know, listen, stocks, bonds, there’s zeros and ones. And I don’t know what’s going to happen with the dollar. Some people will predict that the dollar is gonna collapse, fiat currencies, as I understand it.

There’s never been a fiat currency that’s ever last like they all eventually collapsed. That’s what we have in America like the dollar used to be based on gold in a vault. Then Nixon took us off the gold system. And the money’s just whatever the government says the money is, and if at some point, people lose their faith in the US government. Then the dollars are worth as much anymore. So that property is still going to be worth something people still need a place to live. I wrote this in a blog recently, until we’re all uploaded to the matrix. Because, at some point, we’re all uploaded to the matrix, we won’t need a place to live anymore.

We’re gonna need a roof over our heads. And so it has a value, whether that’s $1 or you’re paying in yen. Or you’re bartering chickens like back in the medieval times, I don’t know. But there’s an intrinsic value to real assets. That’s why a lot of people like to hold on to physical gold and silver are things that are just tangible assets. And that’s why I like real estate. I don’t know where things are going. But you’re talking about institutional sort of moving. So I think that they might be thinking the same thing. It looks like there’s probably some inflation coming.

The great thing about multifamily is it’s super resilient because people need a place to live. I mentioned that in an article I wrote for Forbes at the beginning of the pandemic, people still needed it. That wasn’t the most important thing. Some people could care less about their workspace or anything else. Because their workspace became their home, your office became their home. And so that was extremely important. So that’s just me pontificating but I have no idea.

All I know is I buy cash-flowing businesses, which happened to be apartments, building businesses that generate income. And I think I buy them with very, very conservative underwriting. In my underwriting, I’m predicting a softening of the real estate market. So in my underwriting so that I’m covered if things go down because eventually, they will. And then they’ll go back up, and then they’ll go back down. So that’s it.

Pamela Bardhi
I love it, man. No, I love it. Thank you so much for your insight. I’m always asking everyone to like, what do you think about that? Because I have people that are like sounding off alarms that are saying, yeah, February, March 22. By the end of q1, it’s gonna be an absolute storm. I was like, Oh, that’s interesting in the stocks, not in real estate, but real estate will be affected because of the stocks. So that’s what I’m hearing left and right. And then there are people are like, no, and then so it’s like, it’s such mixed reviews. And it’s really, really interesting.

Matt Picheny
I mean, I’ve been hearing that we’re at the top of the market, both with real estate and with stocks since about 2015. So it’s been six years that I hear that I still look at it and like, wow, it looks really frothy. Don’t know how they’ve got these valuations. But it keeps going. Eventually, it’ll go down. I just have no idea when.

Matt’s Biggest Piece Of Advice For Someone Who Wanted To Get Into Multifamily Investing

Pamela Bardhi
Yeah, so we’ll see end of q1, we’re gonna have another conversation. And we’re gonna talk about it together like, Matt, you were right, or I was wearing or whatever. Matt, I’m sure you get this question. A lot of like, Matt, how do I get into real estate investing like you? I’m sure that you get this question a lot, Matt, where people come to you and like, how can I get into real estate multifamily investing? I’m pretty sure. And, I know your book is coming out as well. So you’ll give them that that’s for sure. What would be your biggest piece of advice for someone who comes to you and says, Hey, I wanted to get into multifamily investing?

Matt Picheny
I think the most important thing is networking. Do you need to network to meet people who are in the space? A lot of the syndications that are done, are done in a way that they can’t be advertised? And the book gets in all the details around that. Some of them can be advertised, but a lot of them aren’t. So you have to meet the people, but also, even if something’s being advertised. Like, are you going to see a billboard or you know, an ad on a website to you know, invest? And then just throw I mean, a lot of these have a minimum of $50,000, right or higher. So are you just going to see a banner on a website and put in 50k? Probably, you know, maybe not, I don’t know.

You really want to get to meet people who are doing this. And that can be done, you can do it online, I think it’s best to be done in person, if possible. It’s really hard when there’s a global pandemic, to meet people in person.  Hopefully, that’s going away soon. You know, I used to run a local meetup in Boston, it still is running. So people in Boston could look for that. I’m going to start one up in New York as soon as COVID dies down a bit. But for the one in Boston, we went online during COVID. But we started doing it online, and there are ones online that do it. So getting out there.

Meeting people is a great way to do it. And then you can talk with other investors get educated. Some of them will tell you to buy my books. Some of them will tell you to buy a different book that will tell you to listen to Pam’s underdog podcast. People will tell you to listen to a different podcast, you know what I mean? Like you’ll get some information from different people from different sources and start learning. Get yourself educated on the space. And then you need to make the effort and actually bite the bullet and do the investment. You want to get educated first. But you don’t want to have analysis paralysis, where you just sit around and get educated for 10 or 15 years and never invest.

The one thing that I’ve heard many people say and I would say to if people were to ask me. What’s the one thing that you might do differently? I would say I would have invested sooner and I would have invested more. And I just I always hear that from real estate people. So get educated, make sure you know what you’re doing. And then get yourself in the game because, my first investment by the way, on syndication I talked about in the book, the whole chapter, it did not go well. I didn’t lose money.

We barely eke out a profit. But I’ll tell you I learned so much from that. You know, the next deals that I see started investing and got really good. That’s what I’m basically teaching the book. It’s like all the things I learned by losing money that I didn’t lose. Actually, I haven’t I haven’t lost money in the multifamily. Because we’ve had such a great ride the past 10 years, I’ve had deals that have not gone very well. And through all of that, I tell some stories and teach them lessons.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that, Matt, thank you so much for sharing that. And so this is one of my favorite questions. And that is, what was your older self tell your younger self based on what you know now. Even though I know you kind of mentioned it in the book, know your lessons and stuff, but it could be whatever you want it to be.

Matt Picheny
I think it really would have been what I just said, which was invested. Earlier at a younger, I had a conversation with a 23-year-old who reached out to me who was interested in possibly investing in some syndications. And I just was like, wow, I was blown away by this guy, very nice, the smart guy makes a good living. He enjoys what he’s doing is he hasn’t been doing it all that long. So he must be pretty bright. But he’s like, Yeah, I want to invest in real estate. And I’m just like, wow, if I would have started investing in multifamily syndications.

When I was 23 years old, I don’t even know where I would be right. I wouldn’t be here. I would be I don’t know where but it’s probably somewhere to Frank. Because, I mean, it’s just blown my mind. So yeah, I mean, I kind of wish you know, if I had it to do over again. What I tell myself I’d say Hey, start investing in real estate, you know, give it a try. See what see what see what happens.

Pamela Bardhi
Love it. And Matt, what are you up to in the next six to 12 months? What’s going on in your world? Aside from the book, which is launching super soon?

Matt Picheny
Well, yeah, a lot of the next six to 12 months, I think is going to be promoting the book trying to get the word out there about that. But then, I’m always looking at deals to syndicate. That I will run and also deals to invest in from a passive perspective. So a lot of my days are looking at deals or going to different types of networking events, usually, real estate-related. So that I can meet more people, take a look at deals and see if there’s things opportunities that are good. Or go and look at properties myself.

So that’s my thing. And you know, we’re actually this is kind of cool. My wife and I are working on it. We’re helping a couple of writers do a little workshop of a show that could end up being something. Or could end up not, it’s a very, very, very early stage. But that’s kind of cool. Doing a little theatre thing there. So, yeah.

Pamela Bardhi
That’s awesome. Now you got to let everyone know where to find you and your awesomeness, your platforms, your websites, all that good stuff.

Matt Picheny
Everything is available on my website. So the book, my blog, has some great educational information on there. And the newsletter that I send out every month has educational tips. And it’s actually really fun I put a lot of personality into it. So all that is available at picheny.com.

Pamela Bardhi
I love it. Matt. I want to thank you so much for being here today. Matt, you’re such a rockstar. I’m so excited for your book to launch and just thank you so much for everything today. It was awesome.