Sue Hough Shares Her Success Story as a Trailblazer

Kevin Harrington
Hi, I’m Kevin Harrington, an original Shark from the hit television show Shark Tank and you’re listening to the underdog podcast

Pamela Bardhi
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of underdog today I have an incredible incredible friend of mine here. Sue, how
are you?

Sue Hough
I’m doing great. Pamela, how are you doing today?

Pamela Bardhi
I am doing lovely. You are radiating, you are shining. How are you doing?

Sue Hough
I’m doing absolutely fabulous.

Pamela Bardhi
So honored to have you here today. See, like we’ve talked on the phone quite a few times, and like just talked about our journeys and different things. And I’m so inspired by you and all that you’ve done in your world. And we walk similar paths as women in the real estate development game, which is so awesome. One of my favorite questions I just want to ask you is what inspired you on your journey to where you are today?

Sue Hough
I’m gonna say my children, my daughters, they were the ones that when times got tough. It didn’t look like there was any way out or anything was going to come up roses. My daughter’s kept me on track. They were little when things were a little bit on the tough side. So it’s just their smiles and their faces and knowing that I had to do better for something and someone bigger than myself. Because sometimes as a person myself, especially if I’m just doing something for myself, it kind of gets lost in the minutia. If I can make it bigger than myself, I will do it. So when things were tough, and we needed to get through, it was always my daughter’s.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that. So I love that. And as a kid growing up, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Sue Hough
Well, I grew up in a very interesting time, I grew up in the 70s. So it was a time when women were just really kind of starting to make headway in the workforce and government and so on and so forth. When I was little, my mom couldn’t get a bank account in her name, she still needed my dad to be the cosigner. So it was a very interesting time, I fell into the tradition.

I was raised in Chicago by a union Catholic Chicago family and not necessarily in that order. So it was very traditional. I wanted to be a teacher. I mean, that’s what I wanted to do with my life. But secretly, my brother and I would just build houses out of blocks, and Legos and Lincoln Logs all day long. So from a very early age, it’s kind of what I wanted to do. I just didn’t realize it for many years. It’s so crazy.

Pamela Bardhi
You know what’s so cool is like kids, we actually are exposed to our life purpose. Then something happens along the way. And then we just get disconnected from it. And then we always just like go back to it. Which is it’s fascinating, isn’t it?

Sue Hough
It’s really fascinating. I had forgotten about it until my youngest daughter, she would draw sketch out house plans, and floor plans. And I remembered I did exactly the same thing from like the age of six or seven. Now granted, it was a modified for my generation, they would be the rooms with all of my children because I was going to be the mommy. But I was doing things like that. By the time I was in first and second grade and I had elaborate drawings of houses. Yes, like crazy.

Pamela Bardhi
Like, it’s so crazy. But it didn’t come to you until like later in life, which is so fascinating, you know, in listening to the societal norms of what they were back then. It’s like I can’t even comprehend my husband having to sign off on a bank account that I had personally, like why

Sue Hough
Or a simple thing like a credit card or owning a home. The real estate market, people don’t realize it. But the real estate market changed dramatically by the 80s. Because women could buy houses and all of a sudden the marketing changed to women. That’s when we started seeing colors in houses, and appliances. I mean, granted, they were almond. But it was appealing to women because women became the strongest buying power of houses by the mid-1980s. Even though they might have been married. They were the decision-makers.

Pamela Bardhi
That is so crazy to me. So is this a reason why any house that’s built before the 70s is all beige?

Sue Hough
Not only is it all beige, but it’s cookie cutter. Like there’s not a lot to it a man designed the house for a man to buy it. Nothing wrong with that by any means. But that was just what the norm was. So things didn’t start to change from a design standpoint for middle-class homes till the early 1980s when women really were the buying power.

Pamela Bardhi
That is crazy. I can’t even walk like that. I mean, like the 80s was technically 40-something years ago. Even though it feels like it was only like 20 years ago in my book, you know, I feel like it’s like not that far away. But it actually is a bit, but that’s still not long ago.

Sue Hough
It’s in my lifetime. So I’m gonna say it’s not long ago.

Pamela Bardhi
But like, it’s still bananas, because I’m like, I just can’t even remotely think of a world like that. And like how far things have come and probably, it’s because I see such badass incredible women like yourself doing things. And like real estate development and just like owning it so much. Like, I just can’t picture the world. Without that, it would be amazing to hear sort of your biggest inspiration growing up? you mentioned your daughters, but who played a key role as you were growing up and like. Who basically influenced your career path in your early years,

Sue Hough
My mom, even though she fell into the very traditional housewife role, at the time. She was kind of a trailblazer, she was very open and accepting of all different kinds of people from every walk of life. In her was always there’s good and bad in everybody. And we have to just be kind and be good to one another. She taught me from a very early age. And I didn’t realize until I was probably in college, that not everybody was raised this way. She taught me without any question, I could do whatever I wanted to do if I wanted to do it. Like there was no obstacle that I couldn’t overcome.

It was amazing to be raised that way. It was like, well, you can do whatever you want. Just pick it in. And she really didn’t impose a lot of stereotypes on me. She wasn’t the mom that said, You should marry a doctor, she was the man who said you could be a doctor. So I am forever grateful for my mom, a wonderful woman.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that, you know, what’s really cool is when you have parents that inspire you. Or you have cheerleaders alive to tell you from an early age like you can be whatever. Like it’s not anything that’s out of reach, it really does affect you to the next level. Because I’ll tell you, like with my father, as my dad would always be like, Pam, you’re gonna be a leader, you’re gonna rock it. You’re not going to need any man in your life, and he’s going to need you you’re not going to need him.

You know, they’d be like, basically learning to stand on your own two feet and like stuff like that. And I just remember like, that, but so much fire in me at such a young age. So I can definitely resonate with that. It’s like when someone can tell them, you could be anything, you have the power to do anything. Like those words really speak into you. And they come to life. It’s so cool to see that. So in your early career days, you like after high school, what happened in your world? What was your career path like?

Sue Hough
Well, I did go to college, I became a preschool teacher, and nine months into it. It’s Dear Lord, what did I pick. And to this day, I have a please teachers on the highest pedestal, because they have a very difficult job. Although I love small children. It just wasn’t for me, interestingly enough I went into a business and started working for an insurance company. Then later went into corporate real estate working for Trammell Crow company. So all of these things kind of led me to where I am meant to be, I guess I just didn’t know that’s what was happening. And I left Trammell Crow company to raise my daughters, and I am so grateful that I had that opportunity.

And although I did, that’s when I started my real estate career when they were very little. I did not want to go back into corporate America where I was working 60 hours a week. There was a gentleman this was in the mid-1990s, who passed away down the street from us, and he was older. And he didn’t keep up his house. This was before anybody really nobody really talked about flipping or doing anything like that. And told my husband at the time, I said, let’s buy this, I can flip it. So after the kids went to sleep, I would go down and do whatever work I needed to do. We made some good money on it. That was the beginning of it.

Pamela Bardhi
That’s crazy. So you make it seem like so easy. And so like wonderful. And also to end like because I know people get stuck in like analysis paralysis, and like all these things. Like they say that they want to do something and then it takes them months, if not years to actually take action. Like what were your action steps when you were like we’re gonna do this.

Sue Hough
I saw it and this was back when there was equity in houses that huge equity before the foreclosures hit and so on and so forth. So it made it a little bit easy because I could see the profit there. I don’t know how I could see it and I don’t remember but I could see it. It was something that I liked I could paint. This needs some new kitchen cabinets. We need some carpet, we need some bushes in the front. We need a few things like this. The toilet was broken. I’m like, Ah, let’s just do it. I can do it. And the biggest obstacle was convincing my ex-husband he was like this is crazy. I’m like no it’s not and thank goodness things changed because I went to the bank and just kind of did it almost on my oh.

Pamela Bardhi
So awesome to see like you were just so when this gentleman passed away, you approached the executor of the estate. Yeah, who like was handling it.

Sue Hough
There actually was a for sale sign that time knocked up in the face. So the gentleman that passed away, had a daughter of all they were very estranged. So she listed the house for sale. That’s how I found out about it. And I have to be quite honest, doing all of those things, to me seemed really, really fun. Like, it seemed exciting, and I just loved it. I loved every part of it and learning all of it. And to this day, I still do so maybe that’s my gift I can look at something and I still get excited about building anything.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that too. So I think you were able to go in there and be like an actual visionary. Like you actually could see everything. Like okay if you did this to piss out painted this and did this like that’s incredible. That is a gift that was a true gift to be a visionary in that space. And a question for you that I have is did you do this work yourself?

Sue Hough
Seven years I did all of the work myself. I’m naturally a well not anymore because it’s been so long, and my knees are the best anymore. But I was actually a pretty good carpenter. Sweat on my own copper, run my electric wires, flooring cabinetry, doing things like that doing my own siding, installed my own windows. I’ve never done a roof. And I think that’s about it.

Pamela Bardhi
So you’ve done plumbing. You’ve done electrical you’ve done what? Oh my god. So this just brought me to a whole nother thing. You should absolutely teach a course on like trades for ladies like basic things in the house. That would be so cool and awesome. Cuz you’ve done it all.

Sue Hough
I’m starting some mentorships from ground-up construction and teaching people how to build and have fun with it and have fun with it.

Pamela Bardhi
Oh my god, that like that’s just incredible. And how did you learn that?

Sue Hough
That was insanely beautiful. A lot of phone calls to my brother who was in construction. I come from a family of tradesmen. So from a very little girl, I my father was an electrician. And I remember one year for Christmas, I might have been seven or eight. I was his little helper, I was daddy’s little girl. He made me a little child-size utility belt. So I would just go around helping him. Or at least I thought I was helping him out there. And I don’t really know if I was providing many services, but I knew how to pull wires from a very early age.

Pamela Bardhi
That’s so cool. Oh my gosh, I knew you flipped. But until now I did not realize that you actually did the work on the property, which is incredible. Wow, Sue? Oh, my goodness. And so I can only imagine that past that point. I just took it and ran with it. You’re like, Yep, this is what I’m doing. I love it. Like, what was it like after that process after the first flip

Sue Hough
After the first flip, it was great, went on to do a couple more that were also very, very good. I had a family restructuring shortly after that time. And that was right. When we were going into the recession, having been out of the workforce at that point for nine years, technically out of the workforce. I was not as marketable as I would have liked to have been. So I continued with construction.

And I continued by then I knew quite a few other people that were flipping houses, and I became their go-to gal. As I grew, I found folks that would be handy and helped me out and grow and develop. And it just kind of happened. I mean, there were some ups and some downs. There’s no question about it. But that’s it took 15 years to get where I’m at almost no 20 years to get.

Pamela Bardhi
Wow. Oh, my goodness. And then 2008 2009, which everybody talks about. And I actually didn’t get into the real estate game. It wasn’t until like 2013 or 2014. So I never like lived through that. Through the real estate downturn. Everyone’s like, oh, wait, oh, nine. I’m like, I wasn’t here for that. I was in high school, I graduated the no nine. I was like, I don’t know what’s what that’s like. So I know that there’s an impending storm upon us in terms of what’s coming. What was that experience like for you? Because obviously, you were on the up and up in 2006 and 2007 when things were going lovely. Then 2008 And 2009 hit what was that? What was that experience like for you?

Sue Hough
That was crushing. But that really was that was probably the lowest point of my life in the Chicago area in Illinois in Chicago. We were decimated here. Just to give a point of reference. The Chicago market didn’t even start writing the larger banks. Did not even start offering new construction loans to preferred people until 2017. That’s how slow Illinois in Chicago was to come back with any type of construction. It was really hard. So in the Chicago area, I had from 2007 to about 2011 where things were really really difficult, and never ever wish to anybody. The horrible feeling of not being able to find work when you want to find work. It was scary. It was really living on a shoestring budget, things escalated.

And then I started feeling really sorry for myself fell maybe into a little bit of depression into just spiraling out of control. And my girls were little at the time it was hard. There was a period of time when keeping the lights on, and just basic needs like food, I had to get help for people were there to help. You know, we did have I hate to say it food stamps for a few years to get through those times and help with utilities and some rent. But we made it through there, there came a point that things got really bad in one week, and it was October I think 2018.

It all collapsed to the point it looked like I was going to be without a home. And my landlord gave me a five-day notice there was a red tag on the door. The next day, that the water I had five days to pay my water bill, it seemed completely hopeless. At that point, it didn’t seem like I had any way out. And I borrowed my friend’s car and went to church, which I’m not the most church-going person. But if there was ever a time, and I just got down on my knees, and I asked God, please give me work. Ever since that day, I’ve had more than enough work.

Pamela Bardhi
Also, oh my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

Sue Hough
So there have been some ups and downs. There’s no question about it. But I am forever grateful that I have had work to be able to support myself and my family. But I also think I needed to learn a lesson there too because I was feeling sorry for myself. And I think ever since then I stopped feeling sorry for myself. It was okay, whatever I’ve got to do. I’ve got to do and took on projects that maybe weren’t elaborate or weren’t lovely. And I managed apartments in Chicago’s toughest neighborhoods and have had to do things that were difficult. But things flourished. Things got better from there.

Pamela Bardhi
Thank you so much for sharing that Sue. And I mean, like, you know, what’s crazy is those moments are really what define us? You know, they absolutely do. They humble us, and they bring us down to what we really are. And it’s insane that when you started practicing that gratitude, how everything shifted,

Sue Hough
Yes, be grateful for everything that I had. And I have had just such a wonderful life. It’s been crazy sometimes, but how wonderful it’s been

Pamela Bardhi
By it and like and how you pick yourself back up from all of that. And I mean, I’ve heard stories from that point in time. Where it was like people literally getting kicked out of their, their house and just like crazy. I’m just like, Oh, my God. Then I’m like, Well, what would you do differently this time? And I’m always asking about market insights like, what you think is coming? Because a lot of people think that another one of those is coming very, very soon. What are your thoughts on like the market, because you’ve seen it once before already. Other times, as well.

Sue Hough
I firmly believe that there’s going to be a change in real estate, I think there’s going to be some changes globally. Because this pandemic has affected many people globally, not many, it has affected the entire globe. I’m in the process of working on a larger development. And one of the things that I’m going to be doing is selling a fair amount of the homes right away. Because I think the market is still really strong. We do have lower interest rates right now.

And there’s a housing shortage in many areas. So I think we can take advantage of that, I think to prepare personally take on as little debt as possible. If it means buying a five-year-old car that you can pay for cash, just do it. I’ve learned to live in a way that is maybe a little bit nice, what I can afford, and it’s comfortable. Because if times get bad, I know I can survive. I think that is what I learned from the last time do not carry a lot of debt carry as little debt as possible.

Pamela Bardhi
Totally agree with that. I said everyone’s been telling me like don’t over-leverage Pam, you know, today, keep no debt, and you’ll be good no matter what storm, what storm comes across. And I mean, so you’ve been exposed to so many things in the real estate game. And I know there’s a lot of people listening that are interested in like the flipping and the development and the construction and all of that. What’s your biggest piece of advice when it comes to the construction side of things. As well as the development side of things. Like things to look for, things that you should be doing like different tips and tricks and tools that used to you used over the years that made you successful.

Sue Hough
The biggest obstacle most people that are especially new in real estate, overlook and it’s just as important as what the house is going to sell at. You need to know your construction budget for the perfect reason you can buy a house, let’s just I’ll make an example. $100,000 you’re going to buy the house, you think that construction is going to be 25 or 30,000. And the house is going to sell for 200,000. Those are the numbers you’ve come up with and you’ve realized that okay, anything more than 30,000 for cars, I have 30,000 for construction. So that’s what it’s going to be well saying that you have 30,000 for construction and the real numbers to 80 or 120. You need to know the construction numbers before you make any type of purchase.

Make friends with a contractor if you have to pay them. If not, you could potentially before you the ink is dry on the closing papers, you could be in for a huge loss. If you don’t know your construction numbers, you need to know those, those are really critical. They’re just as important as knowing what the ARV on your home is going to be. That is the most critical thing I think you need to know. And the most successful real estate investors without a doubt, are the best at knowing what their construction numbers are going to be really what is this project going to cost?

Pamela Bardhi
Right, right. And so with that, how does one who knows nothing about construction, figure out a construction budget.

Sue Hough
The best thing I would advise people is to find a trusted partner who’s a general contractor or somebody who’s really good in the trades and can give you good numbers. That’s really what you need to do, you will probably have to pay that person. Or that company to come out and look at your projects and analyze them for you. That’s how I would go about it. On the same note is what I said before if somebody tells you the budget is 100,000, please don’t think that for some reason. Just because you want it to be 40 cells and you can do it. I see that all the time. Well, I can do it for less. I don’t know how but maybe you I don’t think you can do it for less than the cost of the materials. But give it a go.

Pamela Bardhi
That’s another thing materials are up there saying 23%. I’m like, I feel like that’s well like lumber has gone up more than 100% within itself right now, with COVID. I’m like if badness

Sue Hough
Lumber prices nationally, went up almost 300 over 300%. Until fall of 2021, they started to come down a little bit. In the last month and a half, six weeks, they’re going up again. So right now is a very difficult time to navigate some of the prices on lumber. And if you’re going to be doing a large project, talk to your lumber supplier. There’s chance you can prepay at today’s dollars. So you can actually normalize your budget. So you at least know where you’re going to be. That’s what I’m going to be doing. You know, on my large project, I will be paying a certain percentage of all of my lumber to get the prices out today. If the prices come down, I will be given that number. So at least they’re not going to go any higher. And I can budget safely.

Pamela Bardhi
I’ve already said the construction budget is the most critical and most important thing. And like I tell people how to use. You want to flip houses and you don’t know anything about construction. That’s fine. I didn’t know anything about construction either when I first started but making sure that budget is like tight. I literally put a 25% contingency in there.

Sue Hough
That’s a great idea. Yeah, Pamela. That is a great idea. Did you partner with some people that were really great in construction that helped you out initially?

Pamela Bardhi
Initially? Yes. So I hired a coach in the beginning. And then we have the contractor and everything. But like in the first deal, I think I only budgeted like 10%. And then after the first year, I was like, No, it’s gonna be like 25 30%. What I wonder is the developers who didn’t incorporate these material costs. How they did with everything with the budgets. Because these material costs, like you, we’re saying, 300% I thought it was more like 100 or something like. But it’s like 300% on lumber and lumber. If you’re framing a house, I mean,

Sue Hough
It’s huge. It’s a big difference. I mean, it came down almost half of what it was highest point, and it’s going up a little bit more. Now, hopefully, it’ll come back down again. But the market with lumbers really validated the market with anything that’s plastic made or petroleum base to and I don’t know. If people realize petroleum-based products, or you’re roughing shingles. Some insulation products, a lot of things really go into petroleum. All of your asphalt is petroleum. So those prices are kind of all over the board right now, as well, too. As gas prices fluctuate.

Pamela Bardhi
It’s so crazy to think about, like, I’m just like, wow, it’s madness. And what’s about to come? I mean, I don’t know, I’m just hearing there’s a storm coming first quarter of 22. So I guess we’ll see how that shakes out. You know, we’ll see. We’ll see what happens in the real estate and development world. But I’m hearing that more so on the stock side first, and then it’ll affect real estate. Real estate, we’ll get a direct hit.

Sue Hough
I think this share is a lot of things are going to change. It’s going to be an interesting year to navigate. And I think there’s going to be some areas throughout the country that will fare far better real estate-wise than others. And as it was even in the last recession, I don’t think Chicago is going to do well. I, unfortunately, there’s a lot of indications that it may not only because prior to COVID Our housing prices had still not recovered from the Great Recession.

Pamela Bardhi
I just can’t believe when you’re saying in 2017 is when they started approving new construction loans. That’s insanity.

Sue Hough
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was really interesting. It’s been very interesting here and in the Chicago, market to navigate. And from real estate prices, there’s still areas that are not even at the same value. They were in 2006.

Pamela Bardhi
And now, how have you not been able to navigate in such a difficult market? So because that’s one of the real estate investor questions all the time. How do you choose your market? You know, like, what’s, what’s some advice that you would give?

Sue Hough
How did choose a market? Look, right now, it’s a little bit difficult, because we’ve had COVID has given us an artificial bubble. If you’re going to invest in an area, for example, you’re going to flip a couple of homes. Look at the prices of what those homes were before COVID, and see what that really was at that point. If you have a project, that’s going to be less than four to six months, I think you’re pretty safe at today’s dollars. But for example, my large project that I’m working on in Tennessee. I’m comparing the prices and the Airbnb rental market in spring of 2019. In summer of 2019, I’m not taking 2020 into account, and or 20. Or this, you know 2021.

Because even though these numbers are fabulous right now, and it could show that you’re hugely, wildly profitable, it’s probably a bubble. If my project can stand numbers that existed in 2019. And we go back to a normal quote-unquote, whatever that normal may or may not be. I’m pretty comfortable with moving forward with it. My lender agrees that’s what we’re doing. Just try not to get into comparing unless you have a short-term project, thinking that today’s dollars are going to be long-term. As we all know, as soon as interest rates start climbing, people’s buying, power starts dropping. So we’re going to see it will automatically see a little bit dip in the housing market.

What Would Sue Older Self Tell Her Younger Self

Pamela Bardhi
That’s a great recommendation. So I think that’s such solid info, because again, how do you not lose your shirt? Now? You cannot go up to these numbers. No, not over-leverage yourself. Like, I know so many developers here in Boston that are like everyone’s on hold. I stopped my investments, like purchasing new acquisitions since 2019. Unless it was like a deal that it was like, that’s like, a fire sale like that. Like, unless it was an absolute steal. I was like, I want nothing to do with it. I am all the way set, you know. So it’s the same thing.

And this is going to be I know, there’s a lot of people who are interested in real estate or RNA must that listen to this podcast. So I wanted to get some of the corners out. But my question was going to be, you know, to get back to you and your awesomeness. What would your older self tell your younger self based on what you know now? And it could be business? It can be personal, it could be anything that you want it to be?

Sue Hough
That’s a wonderful question. Thank you, Pamela, you’re making me think here for just a moment. I think for many years, as a woman, I was, even though my parents were a little bit different. It was the time I was raised. I was or I had the belief that I needed to dumb it up that I couldn’t really be super smart. Because that’s not what women should be. And it wasn’t until my 40s that I allowed myself to be smart. And I’m actually a fairly intelligent person. I’m no genius or anything. But I would tell myself to never dumb it up, I should have just been able to shine the way I am.

And just be confident in what I know how to do things, how I can figure things out. And I would share that with all women. I think women were taught to Don’t say too much. Don’t be too smart, dumb it up, or quiet it down because you don’t want to hurt a man’s pride. I’m not advocating offending anybody. I’m just advocating shining as women. Playing dumb for somebody else is it was dishonoring myself.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that. So I love that. I mean, because in this in this world, we were taught I mean coming from Albania. That’s where I was born. Like it was always like the women are submissive, you don’t do all these things. And you’re taught to dumb it down. And that’s exactly what you’re saying. No, don’t speak your mind. Do you think stay fabulous? As to who you really are? Now you mentioned your development that you’re working on. So I’d love to know that. What are you working on in the next six to 12 months? What’s going on in Sue Hough?

Sue Hough
I am so excited, Pamela. This has been a dream of mine for many years. It’s coming to fruition. I have a beautiful parcel of land near the right in the summer. Rocky Mountains under contract it’s about 120 acres. Going to be making a nice secluded putting about 25 homes on there for people to enjoy with a clubhouse with offices, little organic farm will be on there. I’m looking forward to that and kind of catering to people that are coming from big cities that no longer need to work there. And are looking to get back into nature-loving nature. I’m also going to be prohibiting single-use plastic.

I’m trying to love the Earth and make up for maybe some of the indiscretions I’ve done to our beautiful earth up into this point but also by providing a beautiful space for people to enjoy nature. And have some nice occlusion and just hopefully, just fall in love with it. A little bit of a unique use a little unique and putting it about four or five tree houses as well. Yeah, livable treehouses. Yeah. Me Up.

Pamela Bardhi
So I want to see this plan. This Treehouse sounds good to me all day every day.

Sue Hough
Well, thank you. It’s going to be conditioned with heating and air conditioning. So we’re going to be able to run those through the entire year. So I’m looking forward to this. This is a fun project.

Pamela Bardhi
Everything to be Airbnbs as you totally should, Airbnb those the treehouse is not going to be.

Sue Hough
Well, right now, as we had previously just touched on talking about what’s the best strategy long term because this is a long term project. So some of the initial homes are going to be sold the markets really strong there. It’s going to be about half and half. So half of the property’s going to be sold to individual people. And they still will be under an HOA so it will the land itself will be preserved and be honored for what it is. And provide people that something that’s not overbuilt. But they can enjoy and relax and you know, close to Knoxville airport close to Gatlinburg, close to Asheville. So it’s really in the heart of so many different things. But tucked away to just fall in love with the land, and wake up to the mountains every day.

Pamela Bardhi
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing. I’m so excited for all the awesomeness that’s happening in your world and so honored to have you here today. And now you’ve got to let everyone know where to find you and your awesomeness

Sue Hough
Currently August James Limited is the name of my residential construction company in Chicago. And you can find me there on my website. Otherwise, email me at sue@augustlimited.com. I’m on LinkedIn as well. And I don’t know the tag to it right now. So I apologize or you could always just shoot me a phone call. I love talking to people about anything, especially helping and supporting women. If I could encourage all women not be afraid of construction. Do not be afraid of real estate. It’s fabulous. Just to have fun with it.

Pamela Bardhi
Love it Sue and yes you mentioned earlier that you do have the mentorship program as well, especially for women. So you know, anyone who’s interested if you most definitely reach you about that as well. Which would be super awesome I know you’ll see some awesome things.

Sue Hough
Thank you, Pamela, thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure working with you and talking and getting to know you as well.

Pamela Bardhi
Thank you so much for being here today. So you’re an absolute Rockstar. Thank you so much. So that’s it for today’s episode of underdogs. catch us next week, always dropping on Thursdays. And remember, if you’re interested in real estate, or want to learn how to create more money and magic in your life, check out meetwithpamela.com and let’s chat sending you so so much love