Aaron Chapman Shares His Journey to Top 1% in the Mortgage Industry and His Brand-Building Success

Kevin Harrington
Hi, I’m Kevin Harrington, an original shark from the hit television show Shark Tank and you’re listening to the underdog podcast

Pamela Bardhi
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the underdog podcast. today I have an incredible guest here with me Aaron. how are you? My friend?

Aaron Chapman
doing awesome. How are you today?

Pamela Bardhi
I’m doing awesome. I don’t think that there’s anyone I’ve met in my existence that has double braided beard. So you’re very special for that. That’s number one.

Aaron Chapman
You got to watch a Vikings episode or something like that, to see that kind of stuff. I don’t know, well, not only is there not people walking around like that. But they’re definitely not people in the banking. investment banking industry walking around like that,

Pamela Bardhi
which I love. And you’re sort of badass of the industry. I’m like, I can’t wait to get into your story. I was just saying, oh, man, we got connected through this in a different way. But we know each other to family. So it’s like, it’s super cool. I love

Aaron Chapman
how many places we do know each other from but it takes a third party to put us together on the right track.

Pamela Bardhi
They happen sometimes, it’s so interesting how life works. But then when we meet and we’re like, Hey, what’s up? I’m so excited to hear your story. You’re just like awesome sauce.

And I just was like, I’ve always been interested to note here. the top 1% of mortgage originators like you’re just the beast. So I would love to know. And I start this off with the most loaded question possible always. What inspired you on your journey to where you are today?

Aaron Chapman
Wow, inspired is a really interesting word to use. I was at an event where they had a keynote speaker. where he talked about his time in the mortgage industry before the crash.

And he said he got in the mortgage industry to begin with. because he couldn’t get a job in any other place. And like, that is such a true statement. So going back to how I got into is really not an inspiration whatsoever. I mean, I started off life.

You know, my high school years was on a cattle ranch in central Utah. What I loved about it, right is a simple business plan. When you’re talking about agriculture and cattle. and we were running about 500 headed beef cattle every and you got to work your ass off.

And then with high school at the same time and then trying to have a social life is really difficult. What I found is I had to find something had to give here and what gave was my attention to detail at school.

So I found that when you learn how to pick locks. you can pretty much accomplish anything at school without having to waste a bunch of time. So I created more of a business. if you will, plus a way of ever shortcut things by being able to find where they kept the tests.

And I could get through that door. And I found ways to be able to get into the school. do what I need to do get the code to the copier, shrink it down. People would do my homework for me for test answer keys. I could get people to be sure that my attendance showed I was there. I can trade for anything.

And I could sell and do what I did really, really well. I did awesome. I’d be able to to engineer a C to get through high school. And then I left halfway through my senior year to go work in the oil fields of Wyoming.

And that was a whole other thing to be out there in the oil fields. with people that you barely got to know you’re in a harsh environment. Because Wyoming’s not mean, the wintertime, that’s hot. But you learn a lot about people. I got to learn the dynamics between the people doing the work and the people that were creating the work.

And you start to learn a lot about human dynamics and business there. then from there, I went back to running heavy equipment driving truck. And then I found myself working in the mines in northern New Mexico in 1997. went by pop which I thought was one of the coolest things ever.

They sold the cattle ranch and 95 He went back to mining. And here I was underground with my pops. I think close to 700 feet. You’re running a drill machine which weighs about 160 pounds.

you got a man handle that you run to. about probably about 100 to 150 pounds of explosives each day. to blow up the area where you’re at clean allow sport the ground do it again. It was awesome. I love the job. But then they shut down because they’re running out of the material was not so plentiful.

So it wasn’t cost effective to keep the project going. So I got laid off, came back to Arizona late 97 think this is gonna be easy. I’ve got a long resume I can get in any job anywhere. But because of my resume was was what made it so difficult to get a job.

I was overqualified according to everybody I talked to for every job I applied for it. So here I am. 23 years old, I’ve got a wife I’ve got an infant son was nine about six months old. and I couldn’t find a job to save my life.

And it got to a point that is so dire. that I was willing to go to a landscape company in Phoenix. to get a $10 an hour truck driving job the whole landscape rock two sites. that they were putting a new landscape and they turned me down.

So I walked out of that general manager’s office into my truck. and I remember wiping away tears because Mike I can’t even afford diapers. I had a coupon for free diapers that my wife gave me that morning because we needed something for the kid. we were out I couldn’t we didn’t have enough money at accompaniment by end.

So luckily, we got that coupon. as I’m leaving that place and head to the grocery store on my way home. my gas light comes on on my truck. I’ve never driven it long enough to see how long I could go with a gas light on. so I figured I better find a grocery store and I’d better find a gas station.

So I found that gas station, I pulled up to a pump. And it happened to be in the parking lot of a grocery store and only had a debit card with me. I swiped it and I prayed for that to go through and I got a decline. So I rifled through my truck looking for a last dollar hopefully and I found a few coins.

I locked the door I started working about walking in a parking lot. What seemed like a couple of hours collecting everything I could find right? It’d be a nickel, a dime a penny. and um, have you ever been in that position but to look around. make sure nobody’s looking at you.

I mean, people pick up stuff all the time. But I didn’t want anybody seeing me pick it up. because of the situation I was in, pick it up quickly and put in my pocket. And after a couple of hours, I was able to trade my two hours of my life for two gallons of gas.

Luckily, it’s 90 Was it 97 People still carry change back then. And a couple gallons of gas was like $1 I mean, it was under two bucks. I got my gas I went to the grocery store I found my diapers. I stood in line with the one item again more insult to my injuries.

And I had a coupon for the one item I hurried up in exchange it. and I got out of there. As I’m leaving, keeping my head down not making eye contact. I heard my name being yelled from right over by the customer service Congress.

I turned to face a guy that I did business with. I mean, he ran the office at a place I used to run heavy equipment for. when I Dig Dug swimming pools about a year. before he asked me how things were and I related the exact same story. He said, Let’s go to dinner. I’m like, Dude, I can’t afford dinner.

He goes, No, I got a gift certificate to Red Lobster. And we take him to Red Lobster. So me and my wife went to Red Lobster with him a few days later. And he told me about the mortgage industry. So Mike do anything about that. I’ve seen the shows on TV where the old man. the old lady are losing the farm, this thing called a mortgage.

So it doesn’t sound like a good business to be in. Because no, it goes it’s he goes, you’ll figure it out. And I said, Dude, do you know my history. I cheated my ass off to get that C in high school. I don’t know that I would do well with the math associated with because it’s all about people.

Because if you’re good with people, you will succeed. So I went ahead and I called the number on a business card he gave me. I could have put off of my hair I shaved. My mom bought me some business like clothes. And I started that next week as a telemarketer in December 1997.

Pamela Bardhi
Wow. Oh my gosh. And that is quite a story leading up to that that’s insane. And like going from cattle to mining to digging swimming pools.

then to that moment I love I was like envisioning the entire thing as you were describing it. That’s super powerful. And you just got dinner to Red Lobster. And that changed at all.

Aaron Chapman
That changed it all. And it wasn’t like it’s just like an easy Oh, bam, now you’re wealthy. You start as a telemarketer, which is its own special kind of hell. So then you start to learn the lingo, right?

Well, after I think I generated like 10 leads and I went. and I talked the boss like he did let me work. some of these and I convinced them to let me work some of them. You know, that was 25 years ago, and the statistics just came out.

And this last week, I’m ranked number seven in the United States of 1.4 million people that do my job. Wow. So from dead ass broke 25 years ago walking a parking lot for change to rank number seven in an industry of 1.4 million people.

And it’s not like it’s been an easy industry. If you take a beating after beating after beating you got the crashes of in the markets. And then not only was the crash of 2008 that just took everything from me and destroyed my business. I got in a motorcycle accident August 8 of 2008.

I woke up in the hospital. the inability to use my legs and a memory that would that would reset every three minutes. So when I came back from that it was. I built was a decent business now at all obliterated. and all the people I was doing business with are out of the industry.

And I couldn’t walk and I couldn’t remember. so it was rebuild all of that and then come back into a changed environment and have to rebuild of it. And what I found is, the more the bigger the beating you take.

the bigger the opportunity you have in front of you. and too often people will shy away from the beating and not go headlong into it fear. Okay, what did I just learn from this? I like to say that there’s this big ominous split that wakes up every day. and just kicks your ass all day long.

If you wake up to wake up after the foot goes. you just get up before the foot does my foot wakes up at 730 in the morning. I get up at 430. So I have three hours advance run on that sumbitch he will still catch me on occasion.

As we know and when I get caught as long as I bounced and I get right back up. I’m far ahead. And I keep learning from the beatings that I’ve taken in life and doesn’t mean they’re more common. that’s the sad part of it. I don’t care how many beatings you’ve taken.

There’s more common but you’re gonna have thicker hide to take a lot more of a beating. and be able to do more with it. Because if I took the beatings that I took Look in 2008, back in 1997. I wouldn’t have survived it.

But I did the 97 beating, right and I crawled through that got to the 2008 beating. I took that beating, crawled through that and rebuilt it. 2015 came along. I’d merged with another with a partner. And we were doing very well and he yank the rug out from underneath me six months later. I just start over at zero again.

But what was awesome about that start over is he gave me so much insight. I learned so much from that partnership that got fragmented so quickly. that I was able to rebuild from zero and be in the top 10.

In my in the firm I was with within six months. and in the top 1% of the industry within a year. because of the advanced knowledge I got from the blessing of an ass woman

Pamela Bardhi
blessing of an asshole. But you got an underdog story, if I could pinpoint it like this is it like, holy crap, Aaron. like that is incredible to get to the top 1% is a huge ordeal. And to stay there. You know, I want once one of my mentors told me was like panic. it was one thing to get to the top. But it’s another to stay there. Right?

Aaron Chapman
Yes. And that was gonna be part of the next thought process of everybody talking about it. how nice it is to get there because you have no idea how miserable it is to stay there. Because it’s one thing that you’re calling up there.

Nobody really pays attention to you. There’s a lot of people are like, ah, they don’t give you a lot of value. as you’re climbing up there. But once you get there, like, Alright, we’re going after that. some bitch and how do we take him out?

And so now you got everybody targeting you. And I think the reason that it makes it easier to use the wrong word. to say the reason why I think that one of the reason. I’ve been able to maintain my position in that is trying to be not even trying to be. just allowing myself to be who I am as unique as possible.

In my space. There came a point you both are Ron Phillips, right. Yep. Okay, so I referenced the 2008 motorcycle accident. I couldn’t grow a full beard before that accident. I had a patch right here. We’re not filling in that part side of my face. just was getting across the pavement.

So when I woke up in the hospital, I had a full beard. I might get Yeah, I’m not good. No, shave it till I learn how to walk again, or would even trim it. The gun about three inches long. When I took my first step and I maintain that length of beard all the time.

I’d always just keep it trimmed at that point. Well, Ron and I met at a mastermind meeting in 2016. Late 2016. He walks in, he’s like my beard was longer than yours yesterday. my mind was longer than mine yesterday, like here’s the deal.

I won’t shave, I won’t trim it till I see you again. Now, we would see each other every three to six months. I didn’t see that sumbitch for five years, five freaking years. It got all the way down to my waistline, I would have to do this.

I’ve raised my head up just a buck on my duck. because it get wrapped up in that I finally got a hold of Ron. like do I know you guys are all settled down in the south. and you love being there and not travelling. but can you get on my YouTube show. those wise that I said I need to cut my damn beard.

So what are you talking about? You don’t remember in Tampa 2016 You came in I relayed the story goes. I need to remember that it goes by I remember you saying that. So well. I remember seeing it. And what I’ve done is I have walked around with my commitment on my face. and it’s about damn time I touched it.

So I took my knife out and I hacked that thing off. about half of it off in that conversation. It’s grown a lot back since then. But it’s become a brand and I can’t get rid of it now. because it has now everybody knows me with that long braided beard.

I’m the only person in my industry that can walk into a room full of producers and CEOs and bankers. all in suits and inboxes redneck in a camo hat. and a T shirt and a pair of pair of qu pants or whatever. and a braided beard and nobody gives me shit. because they know the history behind it.

Pamela Bardhi
That is so awesome. And like, you know, what’s cool is it’s authentically you. Which I love and like you’re so proud to show that that that is freaking awesome. because this is an industry that is known as what I like to call them finance bros.

it’s like the suits that there’s a certain persona right? And then like Aaron walks into a room and you’re just like what’s up man like, just chillin?

Aaron Chapman
Well there’s that time that you know mom bought me those business-like clothes. and I tried to look the part. I remember there was so many guys when I first got started telling you to dress like this. you look like this, you talk like this and don’t scratch your balls in front of people and yeah. just telling you all the weight how to how to act how to do right.

But then they all start falling away from the business. They’re the ones who are the ones told me how to act and how to be. and how to dress but yet they’re not here anymore, and I’m left by myself. And also notice that the more I look like them
when I see people face to face. I can have a conversation with the person over the phone and be as authentic as possible.

The second we got face to face. I actually struggled to keep clients in the face to face environment. because they could see people can think and tell bullshit and they could see that I was lying to them with my appearance.

So I started adjusting that look after that crash or 2008. Just a little bit more and a little bit more. And it was 2014 I was walking along and very close friend of mine owns a large insurance firm here. or we’d have dinner with our spouses and we’re walking down the street one night and he had his arm.

He just puts his arm around me and pulls close. He says, Dude, I’m gonna make you successful, Mike. Awesome. You know, this is not long after my accident. I’m coming back. I’m starting to make six figures a year.

I’m just barely getting in there. He says, but I’m gonna make sure that everybody who we deal with in real estate space knows Aaron Chapman’s name, Mike. Awesome, man, I appreciate that.

And he goes, but you just got to do one thing. I’m like, What’s that? He says, You got to conform more. So I stopped and like, conform. What do you mean? So at the time, I had a trimmed beard. My head was shaved.

And I would wear all black. I wear a black button up shirt and black pants and boots, like motorcycle boots. And he says, You got to shave, get some suits, you know? he starts just describing himself when I say so what you’re saying is. I am going to be represented by your brand.

I have to represent your brand. Right? Yes, because that’s how all my all my staff is
all my agents are this way. This is the brand that we have. And I got thinking about that this guy has a very successful individual has a very successful business. He’s tied very deep in the real estate community in Arizona.

And I said, Jack, I love you, but fuck you. And I thank him for this. I said, I can’t compromise me for anything. then I realised I said this was and then I thanked him again. because I dude, really, he was rescuing the and pointing me out. that I was straddling two sides of the line.

There’s a line drawn there that I was walking one foot trying to be semi business. like with the slacks, and with the black with the black shirt and the trimmed beard. And then on the other side of it. I was trying to be a little bit more me by even having the boots. and the beard, stuff like that.

And it’s like, you know, I’ve got to make a decision either I’m going to go full business like what Jack’s requested, I’m going to go full Aaron Chapman. So I decided to go cooler and chat with that point. And I ditched all that crap. And I created my own brand.

And within that brand creation, I didn’t realise I was creating a brand. It’s like I was just done trying to conform at all. then I started that’s when the hat ended up popping up on my head. and then the becoming part of that brand.

And ever since in fact, Jack called me one time I hit that top 1%. He saw me in the top 20 in my space. This was probably about I’d say four years ago he called me. It was a screaming the phones were the loudest guys you ever met.

So dude, I just saw the numbers are so awesome. I say I got you to thank for that he goes me. What do you mean me? As you remember that night. we’re walking on the street and you said you got to conform Argos? Yeah, I said, you put me in a decision, man, you pointed out where I was making mistakes.

And it made me make that decision had I not done. that had you not had that conversation? I may not be here. In fact, looking back on all the things we talked about. had I not had I gotten one of those jobs that I had applied for. that I suppose the overqualified for I might not be here.

had people drop more change than what they did. had I got my $2 of get two gallons of gas can change faster. I wouldn’t have seen keys had been out there longer, less people drop change. it took me longer to find that change.

wouldn’t have seen Keith, it was all just lined up for the perfect moments for all these things. I got to thinking about that. I remember that prayer that I said when I swipe that debit card. had it been answered in the way I requested, I would not be here.

The prayer was interrupted in a way I didn’t request for. So here we sit, I would not be right now talking to people. about what goes on in life and all the ASW weapons that you’re going to take. that’s going to create that success for you. Had I not taking these beans? Or have my prayers answered in ways that I didn’t anticipate

Pamela Bardhi
Amen to that. And sometimes we look at things over like. why the heck did this happen? Like, for example was like when I would look back at my restaurants on my car that was just like, dammit, dammit.

And then I think about I’m like, well, without that I wouldn’t be in real estate. Like it wouldn’t have pushed me the way that you know. So it’s interesting how these hidden blessings happen in your life.

But you don’t realise them until later. Right? Like you said, like every single area, every single element. every single situation with you. You wouldn’t have met Keith that night.

Aaron Chapman
Right? Yep. When you look back and how it stacks up over such a long period time. The other thing I believe that we do lack a lot in the world right now is definitely patients. Had I understood the need for that debit card to not work. how much would have changed would have changed anything I don’t know.

But look how long how much patients that took that was 1997. I did not achieve that 1% position, that top 1% till 2016. Look at the length of time that that took. And it was from that debit card not working to 2016.

You know, nearly 20 years have gone by 19 years. before the realisation of the power behind that one. Oddly answered prayer. So patience is something that I think we all have failed to really exercise properly. And as a result of that, we actually probably stifled the bless Seems that could be coming.

Because we’re so busy churning for them that what we believe the blessing should be. that we’re pushing away all these other great opportunities. all these other great things. You know, there was one one of these opportunities. I had a good friend of mine, Joel.

Were out goofing off, we went to dinner one night. and then went to something called the air sex championship. I’ve never heard that. Have you ever heard took our spouses out. And it’s a whole interesting story how I got to know him. and we heard about this, I checked it out.

So you know, like air guitar sent me pretending to play the guitar. Well, people were pretending on stage to be having sex. And it was they pick the music and they get on stage. And they pretend he was, it was the funniest thing you’ve ever seen.

It’s like going to karaoke, but not karaoke. So and after this thing he tells me to. I’m making this I’m making the deal happen. I’m working it out the details right now.

But when I’m done with, it’s gonna change your life. like, how’s it gonna change my life, just trust me. it’s gonna change your life, like, Okay, I trust you. And as we parted ways, he’s walking towards the parking lot of his car.

as I’m walking on the parking lot where mine is. he turns around, raised his arms all the way up, there he goes. I’m gonna change your life, and he screams it. Like, I have no idea how he’s going to do this.

Well, it turns out, he bought one of the largest real estate firms here in Arizona. and they had already made a deal with a lending company to be their primary lender. we had their executives reach out to me to come work for them. and potentially be the guy who works with his his real estate group.

So they asked me to went through the background checks. and all this stuff to get to start interviewing with these guys. And then they want me to come meet the CEO.

they said, We can’t meet the CEO until you do this one exercise. and we want to know what you’re gonna do with the next five years. your life and like, I don’t know what to do in next five years, your life is 2014.

who the hell knows what I’m gonna do? They showed me this exercise with these bullet points that this guy had written out. So I decided to Okay, fine, I’ll write this crap just for the sake of going up there. and possibly getting this life changing job.

And I wrote this, this letter to me five years. in the future of everything that I had accomplished in great detail. was sitting on a rock overlooking the landscape along the Rubicon Trail with my jeep.

And I made it to where I could see it. I could smell it, I could taste it, I could hear the sounds around me. as if I was really there to describe my life and when it accomplished. and in that five years, I accomplished everything that I had written down.

but yet, I never went to work for that company. I never did business with my friend Joel. he thought he was going to change my life by going to work for this company. and then do business with him. We’ve never done a single deal together with his company and my company.

But he did change my life and my ability to create my future. So with that same thing, I was coming into 2017. I close 300 and some transactions in 2016. Like, I don’t want to double it. Well, this whole writing thing seems to work.

So let’s see what I can do with 2017. I just closed on some two lots in the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas. So I thought, I’ll put myself in that sitting. I’m going to build my house in the Ozarks.

So I wrote it down that I’m sitting in my rocking chair. on my porch overlooking the Ozark Mountain landscapes thinking back on 2017. And those 600 transactions I closed. Well, then within about a week or so I get a call from my, one of the executives of my company. say how is important that how important is the state of Missouri to you?

And like, I don’t know, if you look I think was 12% of my pipeline. I guess it’s pretty important. Why he goes, Well, we just lost our brick and mortar there. So you have 90 days to close all the transactions you have in that state. because your licence won’t be active anymore until we get another licenced person that lives in the state. and can open up an office.

Mike, what are you doing to solve the problem? Because oh, we’re gonna put an ad on Facebook and maybe monster and see what we get. I might do can I solve the problem it goes or how you gonna solve it. So my sister lives in Missouri. She used to work for me years back and countrywide.

Let me see if she’s, she wants to do this. So I called her up. She answers I said, like, Hey, you want to get licenced? She goes, I haven’t talked to you in six months. And the first thing you ask is, do you want to get licenced? I’m like, is that a problem? At that point, she paused and she starts to choke up.

She goes, I just lost my job. My husband’s salary, just covers our bills, and just gives us a little bit extra. And we were talking about last night and he says. why don’t you call your brother and here you are calling me. Wow. Am I? So that’s a yes. Because I didn’t really I was so focused. I wasn’t paying attention to the gravity of the question.

Or the the statement she was she was of course it’s Yes. Am I cool? I’m gonna have these guys contact you. They’re gonna get you the education you need. and you go take the licencing exam, we’ll get this all handled. And I keep my business going.

Well, we kept that moving, kept her going, everything was working. And then the day of the test comes along. and I’ve got people calling me saying as she passed. as you pass, we gotta get these loans closed. Mike, I don’t know if she’ll call me shortly. Well, then her her number pops up my phone.

And I answered it just finally. And she’s bawling. It missed it by one question. The problem is in the real mortgage licencing process if you miss it. you have to wait 30 days to take it again.

So as she’s crying, she says I’m sorry. I can’t believe I let you down so don’t worry about it. It changed focus. I’m going to be I’m moving to Missouri. I’ll be there on Thursday. So what do you mean? I said my family staying in Arizona.

I’m becoming a Missouri and finding everything I can buy that I can lease or lease that’s commercial. so I can transfer my licences. I’ll be there Thursday. We get there, I roll up to her house. she comes out compete, the kids might go get your ass in the car. we’re gonna figure this out first.

There are two kids she had not met yet, but get in here, let’s go. finally settled it out. I made a deal on that little office within the city building somewhere, and I was relaxed. And then she took me by this little place along what’s called Fall Creek Road.

these two little cabins built in 1800s, when used to be a chapel. and one was a paint studio for the pastor back in the 60s. and they were overgrown with vines. you could barely simply roll by walk through these things are awesome.

I made a deal with the realtor. We ended up getting the seller to carry that note. I bought those places. And now they were commercial, I can literally move my business there. So I came back a week later to meet with the contractor . see what’s gonna take to rehab this place.

And as I walked down from the stairs from the street. on the steps to this deck between these two cabins. there was a rocking chair sitting on the porch. like sweet, I got a rocking chair, whatever. I started rocking on this chair, and then it hit me.

I’m like, wait a minute, I pulled out of my backpack, my notepad and it said I’m sitting in my chair. my rocking chair on my porch overlooking the Ozark Mountain landscape thinking back on 2017. I’m like, I wrote this two months in two days before.

And I was thinking about the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas. I’m in the Ozarks of southern Missouri. and just them when they hit me and my sister pulls up. I said, it’s just like you weren’t supposed to see that yet. like, how did this get here.

So your wife called last week and said, make sure a rocking chair is waiting for him when he gets there. So the reason I share that is you’re gonna get your ass what things are going to happen. but you have the capability to create what you want.

But you got to be careful with who you share it with. There’s a lot of people out there who want to stop your progress. and do everything they can to hurt you. But there’s other people that will make sure that the little details are handled.

So you got to be sure you have the right people in your life. Because that little detail, I wouldn’t have thought about that rocking chair. But that rocking chair right there solidified everything that I needed. to have happen in my world to make me know that I was on the right track.

Even though I went to hell with this. Incidentally, I didn’t get into transfer my licence it I had to wait on her. But it told me I was on the right track. And that year, I closed 678 transactions. that I exceeded my goal more than double what I was anticipating.

So the whole thing was I just keep telling everybody just can’t stop. You gotta keep going. You gotta keep pushing, you gotta keep looking for something more. and you will accomplish every damn thing you want. If you’re focused enough.

Pamela Bardhi
Hey, man, I love that like those little details like the rocking chair like that is 1,000%. That is 1,000%. Like as you like, I love your stories are so much. I’m like, getting lost in all of them. like an errand just like run this whole thing like right now. It’s just beautiful.

No, because it shows you the power of visualisation. And a lot of people really underestimate. You know, they’re like, oh, manifesta like. What the hell is that I have to be sitting in meditation and do all these things. No, no, it’s a simple thing of closing your eyes and really envisioning what do you see?

Like, when you ask yourself, Where do you want to be in five years? What does it look like? What does it smell like? What does it taste like? Like, where are you? Who are you with? You let you know, like, all the what are the colours like describe it. All right.

And then like, ironically, I’ve had many moments in my life where I’ve mapped it out. I’ve seen it, and then like it comes full circle. And you’re just like, it’s like this weird experience that you’re like, that just happened. Like, I’ve seen this before. Like, here it goes again. Just the coolest thing in the world, it’s the coolest thing possible

Aaron Chapman
for you to end up at any destination whatsoever. If you’d never even decided what the destination might be. If all you’re doing is you’re saying, Oh, give me take a left turn here. Let me take a right turn here and go straight here.

I’m gonna turn around the corner here, you’re end up just wandering aimlessly. You’ve got to have some sort of semblance of a destination before you’re gonna get there. Now. How you get there sometimes is dictated by different turns. and twists in the road that you’re not aware of.

But then eventually, one day you stand up and like, holy crap. I’m here and this is way better than I thought it would be. Come to find out. It’s like, okay, I accomplished it. I mean, it’s ranked in the top, whatever. I’m a millionaire. And it’s actually just feels like Tuesday. So now I gotta do something else.

Pamela Bardhi
Yeah, yeah, that’s what I was mentioning earlier. Like, when I hit my huge year. it was like, it was like, Okay, that’s great. And I had the little God tap, that’s okay, bam. you know, you’re doing great things for yourself. What are you doing for the world?

And that’s when the concept of this podcast really started coming out. You know, like, the passion and all that stuff. It really just makes you question. Alright, like, what’s next? And what’s really important.

I just, I love Aaron. I love it. And I mean, I love that you went from literally. like mining and cattle to where you are. like that’s absolutely insane. And getting into the mortgage industry. which was something that’s polar opposite from anything that you’ve ever known.

What were some things that you did that helped elevate you? And what helped shape your mindset at that time. because that is not easy to do to go from something. that’s totally opposite to where you were, you know, just for anybody who is having that kind of mindset like, and maybe some tips and strategies that you took kind of moving forward.

Aaron Chapman
Right, the best tip I can give anybody is be willing to ask why all the time? And then ask what you know why, and what were the two basic questions like. What is it does it take to accomplish this? Or was it take to do this deal? And you simply tell me, you know, well, you can’t do it because of this.

This will. Why is that? I asked why a lot. In fact, it reminds me of a situation when it was 2000. That’d be 2012 or 13. I think it was maybe, I think it’s 12. I had a client, he was a he ran a team from Microsoft. This guy made really good money. and he had almost a million dollars in bank accounts.

So work pretty a capital and he was trying to buy multiple properties at once. I think it was like three or four properties all at the same time. Well, I had these underwriters within his bank tell me we couldn’t do that loan. because he was buying too many too fast.

They called it rapid acquisition, like that’s not a thing, was it? Well, it was a thing at one point. but it’s for thing for like a guy who was like, drove a cement mixer. And his parents died and left a million dollars.

He doesn’t know how to handle a million dollars. you don’t let him go too quickly and crush himself. But this guy runs a team of Microsoft. He has, he’s worth millions, he built those millions. He runs his team, he understands this, you understand what he’s getting.

So that doesn’t end there’s no guideline that says this in our book anywhere. But they would fight with me on. and then they finally just they withdrew the files. they didn’t even decline the files, they withdrew them.

Withdraw means that the client said I’m no longer working with you. So I call them up. Say, dude, I told you I’m working on this. You didn’t need withdrawn because I didn’t withdraw. So you didn’t because no. Well, let me look at this.

I went figured out it was the head underwriter and corporate that did this crap. because they didn’t want to do the deals. So I was pissed, I want to go talk to these people. And so on my way to my office, I stopped at a Walgreens. I couldn’t even think straight, I need something to drink a cotton mouth.

I’m walking through there and I was aimlessly wandering. instead of going over to look cooler just grabbing an iced tea. And I started seeing thing on the shelves that kind of like glow on the shelf. So I started grabbing these things off the shelves at the same time to grab iced tea.

And as I’m walking on it paid for stuff. So do you have a brown paper bag? That yeah, we have some brown paper bags. So I took two of them. And I stuffed all this stuff in the brown paper bag. I stopped by my office, I got the guideline manual, I put that in there.

And I went and saw the executive who or the supervisor manager was kind of stopping me. from connecting with these people and raising hell about it. I walk right into her office with this bag and I set it right on her desk.

She goes what is that and I didn’t see anything. I opened it up, I pulled out a roll of duct tape. Then I pulled out a razor knife. And I pulled out a Zippo. And I pulled out a bottle of Jim Beam and I pulled out two condoms.

And then the guideline manual goes. What are you doing with all that? And I said, we’re gonna figure out this deal. Using one of these items, I’m gonna let you pick,

Pamela Bardhi
oh my gosh,

Aaron Chapman
of course it goes the guideline manual. and we could prove there was no basis for what they were doing. then within four hours, I got an approval on that loan. And the reason I got the approval. so I didn’t just accept their answers. Like you got to show me why.

Why is it you believe that what you’re doing is accurate here. when there’s nothing out there that proves you were right. So and then you have to go in a way that people aren’t thinking we’ve all heard a pattern interrupt.

we’ve all heard the David Sandler sales method or pattern I want. I tried to be my own pattern interrupt just by how it looks, how I talk how I act. But I need to interrupt the pattern even more in this scenario by taking all these things.

So in that respect, I tell people, you’ve got to come at things from all kinds of different angles. you can’t go head on to everything, you got to ask a lot of questions. You’ve got to understand the reason why is even created.

Why did they even say you have to do it this way. That’s the benefit that I have from not even really having an education. I’ve had a lot of people ask me where I got my degree, I don’t have one. And so he said I barely I engineer to see in high school had that story already.

That’s because nobody ever says to me. they can’t tell me that the methods have to be done this way. There’s got to be another way to do it and do it where it’s legal. I’m not saying that I’m not saying that we do anything fraudulent or whatever in my industry?

we find a way to be able to get inside the minds of all the people we’re working with. to really understand why do you see it the way you’re seeing it? Why can’t you see it from these other angles? And what other angles are we not looking at? Done with it, we find ways to make things work.

And that’s where my success has really come. is not being pushed into a box or a corner and saying it’s impossible to do that. Because if that was true, I would have never gotten anywhere in it. There’s no way I do 1000 transactions a year for real estate investors in 30 states. had I not had a mindset like that,

Pamela Bardhi
right? No, totally. I love that asking why? And asking questions to just in general. Most people are like, Oh no, I’ll just figure it out. And it’s like, no, no, no.

Ask those questions like how’d you not ask that why you would have been. like, oh, yeah, sorry little alone didn’t get approved. Like that’s the most people And well,

Aaron Chapman
they said no. Well, why did they so no? Well, I don’t know. We’re not going to ask why they said no. well, no, they just said, No, there’s got to be a reason for it. And a lot of times that people say no video. we know why they’re saying no. he’s saying how they don’t even understand. what a no one who yes is in that side of the world.

So I’ve had to build a system. In fact, my reason my system works really, really well. I have 22 staff members to do what just the business I come in, I bring in. and I was standing in Chipotle in 2014 seemed to be a hell of a year for me. because 2014 I’m standing in a Chipotle line. it’s out the door in Arizona. and it just sucks standing in a line out door out the door.

But that’s what my one staff member wanted was Chipotle. So I’m getting it. And as I’m standing inside the door. finally getting some a C, I’m counting the heads behind the counter. And notice there’s 11 people back there. aside from the four or five, you see, but there’s more in the back.

And there’s all these people at CASAC. Why do they need 11 people be successful at burrito construction. that doesn’t make sense to me. So I started looking at everybody’s job and seeing how they’re interacting, how they’re doing. there’s nobody stumbling all over each other.

And the customer never interacts with one person twice. they have a different person at different stages. you don’t have just a single point of contact, like, build that. So I built that. And I duplicated that system with the lending space to where now. I could have a client go through an assembly line process.

And everybody from the initial phone call the funding is all on my team. not going to different departments. I’m not interacting with somebody else’s philosophy on how business works. I don’t have department heads fighting with each other. I don’t have to deal with silos and Corporation and corporate America.

It’s all on my team. this one assembly line and all came from standing in line at Chipotle. the answers to every question that’s floating around us. you just got to open your damn eyes. And the one thing that people fail to do is realise you can never find the answer. if you don’t ask the question.

When you open up your mind enough to ask the question. all of a sudden, the answers start to flood in. and one of the reasons that one of the things I really found that works well with that. is just stepping on a stage being mean.

When people see on the programme or their description of what’s going on at this event. that a Real Estate Investment Finance expert is there to speak as a keynote speaker. they have an automatic idea in their mind what they’re going to see as steps on stage.

And they got to take a look back say this is just the right one. Because it does not correspond with what they saw in their head. So they asked a question now is what the hell is he doing up there?

And what does he have to share? I automatically took control that entire audience. because they all simultaneously asked one question. how the hell is earrings going to relate to this? Now? Listen, you get the answer.

Pamela Bardhi
Yes. I love that earring. I love that. And I love that you took that you pull a assembly line for your business. which is super cool. And that’s gonna be my next question for you was, you work with a lot of real estate investors.

And when it comes to lending. this is like the biggest question mark that anyone wants to get started in real estate. or start investing in real estate asked is like. what’s like your best piece of advice for anyone that’s looking for a mortgage. or looking to invest in real estate. From your perspective, the

Aaron Chapman
best I could possibly offer to anybody is. well, there’s three things you’re gonna invest in real estate. you really have three things you have to focus on. you’re the CEO of your real estate investment business. Number one, you have to absolutely pick the right people to work with.

Too often people go around, they shop for a lender based on interest rates. interest rates come from all, they all come from the same source. we’re all going to be pretty close to each other. you have to find people are going to help you become successful at what you do.

then that’s my goal is to ensure the success of my client. I give them tools and stuff that nobody else has. if you call me I’ll share with you how then the other is you got to buy the right business.

So the right property, you can keep it reasonably rented for the entire time you own it. and you can raise rents on just by that alone. leveraging it for 30 years with the right lender. and then picking the right property stays the reasonably rented the entire time. you own the audit and raise rents.

you are literally increasing your initial investment by 10.25% Every year. just by having somebody in there paying off the note. That’s it, That’s no cash flow. That’s not talking about appreciation that’s not talking about tax benefits. not talking about any of that, just amortising.

Note, if that’s your baseline, a 10.25% increase in your of the original investment at 20%. Down, everything else is gravy. The problem is we have a real estate industry that sells investment. real estate that has totally focused on cash return metric for the last 15 years or 13 years.

And nobody can achieve what they used to do. because interest rates are where they are. Interest rates matter. Interest rates have been higher than one to one. and a half percent higher than where they’re out today.

For the majority of history, we only have a small window of time that was lower. And that was what the Fed created quantitative easing. quantitative easing, and that’s gone. That’s never coming back.

If somebody ever tells you get a short term instrument. like an arm or a balloon note can just refinance when the rates go down. Have no idea what the hell they’re doing. They’ve not been in the business long enough to see what’s going to happen.

what could happen and they’re steering you into a wall at full. because they don’t care about you. they care about you closing that deal and then getting paid. not what’s going to happen to you and your future.

You know, the 30 year fixed, in my opinion is the greatest instrument history. In fact, Warren Buffett himself said it’s the greatest financial instrument ever conceived. And he said, it’s because it’s a one way bet.

If you’re wrong, and the rates go down. you just refi if you’re right. and the rates continue to go up yourself against that increasing cost. His partner Charlie Munger says that we’ve seen 40 years of declining interest rates, it’s his belief.

we’re gonna see 40 years of inclining interest rates. you lock it in now you’re protected not because that will be a huge asset for you. And because of inflation, you’re never gonna pay back what you borrowed anyway. because the dollar is devaluing.

So fast, over 30 years, you pay back less than what you borrowed. If you don’t believe me, reach out to me, Aaron chapman.com. I’ve got an app that you can download. and I’ll prove it to you. I’m the only guy in the industry with it. I’m the only world with it,

Pamela Bardhi
you know what I love, you’re just like, you’re so real with it. and raw with it, you know, and that’s the god honest truth. like $1 today is very different than $1.20 years ago. that had more weight at that time.

Aaron Chapman
let me illustrate that 122 years old. I could drive and walk into a Taco Bell and get two bean burritos and two tacos. and a drink for $1.99 off their value menu. I drove through a drive thru the other day with my daughter, 16 years old. she want that exact same thing you want to cost me 15 bucks.

And you can’t tell me that the Taco Bell ingredients got that special in that period of time. Know, what we’re paying for it with has lost that much value in that window of time.

What Would Aaron Older Self Tell His Younger Self

Pamela Bardhi
I totally agree. Oh, my gosh. And this is gonna be one of my favourite questions. because I just love your stories. I can’t wait to see what you say. But like, this is legit, my favourite. And this could be business personal, whatever. But what would your older self tell your younger self based on what you know, now,

Aaron Chapman
I would have kicked the piss out of me to start picking up books earlier. start listening to people say you can create your future earlier. you can write your goals, you can write that stuff down. I didn’t start that stuff towards 40.

You know, and I have some amazing books. my favourite book in the whole world right here it sits with me, The Master Key System. It’s travelled everywhere. So beat up, I’ve taken this hunting in Alaska hunting in New Zealand. I’ve taken the mountains all over the place.

It’s marked up, it’s beat up. This thing is a correspondence course from 1910. that teaches you how to train your focus. And I’m not even remotely trained on how to focus the way I could have been. But this has changed everything. And it changes every life that I ever put in front of.

I’ve written books since then, since 40. all these things have happened because I finally paid attention. how I got back to somebody told me and sat me down and beat it into me. and I was when I was 1012 1518 years old. I don’t know where I will be. But I’m just very, very glad that I’m where I’m at now.

And it’s my opinion that arriving late is just on time. you’re gonna get there when you’re ready to get there. and you’re not capable of getting there anytime sooner. So be patient, learn them, learn what you can. and focus your mind on what is benefiting you and create that future.

And the other thing is don’t take from anybody, you will take from soul. Do you see somebody who’s weaker. you help them you don’t take from that when you’re in any sort of enterprise. everybody has to win from it.

I’m so sick of everybody deciding that everybody else owes them something. to make it like, Oh, I’m gonna mark it and we get business. but you’re gonna pay me a little bit of our free you refer me because I’m the best at what I do.

I refer you because you’re the best at what you do. Everybody is the best at what they do. We all win. But if you’re trying to take from everybody, you’re gonna get nothing.

Pamela Bardhi
Absolutely agree that there’s this crazy sense of entitlement that comes with success. sometimes that some people carry along and it’s like. do you forget where you started? That’s it’s I totally agree with you help them out, lift them up. A rising tide should raise all ships, then that’s

Aaron Chapman
the razor’s edge of failure all the time. It can happen any of us if you’re stepping in the wrong spot. get ahead and get focused.

Pamela Bardhi
Amen. Absolutely. So Aaron in your world, what’s up in like the next few months. like what’s going on in your row?

Aaron Chapman
I live my days, minute by minute by what my calendar says I got to do next. I do know coming up. At the end of the year, I do have a another a fishing trip in Panama. And then next year, I’m a hunter and I love to hunt and fish.

That’s what I love to do. I just got back from New Zealand on the big hunt. I’d love to go to Alaska. We’re planning another moose hunt in Alaska. I’ve got got my first grandkid, so I get to see her grow. And she lives right next door.

So I get to see her all the time. Seven, eight months old now. It’s just it’s a completely different world than it was just a year ago. my world continues to change. And I’m always eager to see what the next day is gonna bring.

Pamela Bardhi
I love that Aaron I love that and I’m like, gosh. like the amount of wisdom the nuggets everything you’ve dropped this entire interview. thank you so much even I’m like gear like rethinking things.

I gotta read that book masterpieces though. I gotta take some notes here with Aaron my gosh, no, thank you so much. And now everyone’s got to know Where to find you and your awesomeness?

Aaron Chapman
Aaron chapman.com I’ve got a YouTube show that you can go to the media section on there. you subscribe to that I, I send out the start with the pandemic, I send out twice a week. a breakdown of what’s happened in the market and the economy .and how that affects you as the real estate investor.

Just go there and you just search me on it Aaron Chapman. but easiest, just find it on my on my website. subscribe to that I’ll just keep updating you. And it’s from a real perspective. And what’s funny is there’s just these last few weeks. the experts are saying one thing I’ve been saying the exact opposite.

And my opposite is accurate. And I’m not. I’m not saying I’m smarter than these guys at all. They’re way better educated, but it’s just you’re seeing how the world is working. There’s too many people trying to blow sunshine and rainbows up your ass but doesn’t.

That’s not there. You got to be prepared for anything that’s going to occur. and just get the right people to come with him. We’re all gonna have a damn good time. We’re all going to be successful. It’s just all matter where you start here.

Pamela Bardhi
Oh, yes, Aaron. Hell yes. I love that you do that twice a week. you break down the market and what’s happening in Aaron terms. which I like, because I know that that’s going to be the truth and

Aaron Chapman
honest. Oh, yeah, yeah, there was. And you’ll see it’s definitely in Aaron terms. I had one Two episodes ago called just the tip. So and that’s actually kind of taken off. So you’ll see what I mean by that when you have to look it up.

Pamela Bardhi
Oh, my God. Aaron, you are so awesome. Thank you so much for being here today. Your wisdom and just everything. Man, I really appreciate you.

Aaron Chapman
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you allowing me to come on and talk to your audience. I’d love to come back when we got another book in the works. It’s going to release here. I’m not sure probably within the next year it’s written and waiting on the artwork.

It’s going to be ridiculous. I’d love to come back on and really push the book. There’s four books already out there. They’re small ones. They’re like just chapters that are released with their own cover, but this one’s coming. It’s gonna be big and scary. Awesome.

Pamela Bardhi
You are awesome. And I can’t wait to hear all about that. You got to keep us posted as that comes closer for sure. They definitely. Thank you so much, Aaron. So that’s it for today’s episode of underdogs. catch us next week, always dropping on Thursdays.

And remember, if you’re interested in real estate. or want to learn how to create more money and magic in your life. check out meet with pamela.com and let’s chat sending you so so much love