Matthew Bell

Get ready for the latest episode of The Underdog Show Podcast! In this episode, we’re diving into Matthew Bell’s journey in the real estate world. Starting out, he saw a chance to help others while taking on rewarding challenges. But he noticed a problem – too many people in the industry were looking out for themselves. That’s when he created The Apollo Property Group. They’ve snagged thousands of properties, giving struggling homeowners a fresh start and offering great homes for renters. Plus, they’re letting others get in on the action through their investment fund. 

In the episode, Bell dishes out tips for newbies: don’t fear failure and embrace the journey. The highlights of the conversation between Pamela and Matthew are:

  • Matthew Bell’s background and inspiration to get into real estate and 
  • The tips Matthew would recommend for somebody starting in real estate
  • How to scale a business
  • How to identify commercial assets
  • The plans for the next months

In summary, adding value is the name of the game.

Listen to this exciting episode. Join us for the conversation! Listen to the full episode here:

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Catch up with Matthew Bell here:

The Underdog Podcast host is none other than Pamela Bardhi. She’s rocking the Real Estate Realm and has dedicated her life as a Life Coach. She is also in the Forbes Real Estate Council. To know more about Pam, check out the following:

Our goal is to help you create the life you dream of through real estate. We’re giving value-packed masterclasses on our YouTube Channel – Elevate Through Real Estate. Make sure to subscribe.

Click To Read The Transcript

From Sales Pro to Real Estate Strategist, Matthew Bell Shares Path to Financial Freedom

Pamela Bardhi: Today I have an incredible guest here with me. Matthew, how are you, my friend?

Matthew Bell: I’m great, how are you?

Pamela Bardhi: I’m doing awesome. Living life in Boston, Massachusetts. How about you?

Matthew Bell: Is summer breaking up there yet? I know it is down here.

Pamela Bardhi: Oh, yeah. Everyone’s in their flip flops out here. Short shorts and all the things.

Matthew Bell: Charleston, we’re right next to the tourist hotspots and beaches and stuff. And so we get really pretty warm right around April 1. So we’re a little bit spoiled. We’re knee deep at this point.

Pamela Bardhi: Love that. I love that. It’s such an honor to have you here, Matthew. Just talking before the know, all these shifts in the market. what’s happening in real estate and all these things. And I’m just like, man, we’ve got an interesting future in front of us. But before we get into all that awesomeness and interestingness that we have going on in the market. I want to know all about you and your background and how you really got into this space.

Matthew got into real estate after working in medical sales

Pamela Bardhi: So I’m going to start with my first question for you. which is what inspired you on your journey to where you are today, my friend?

Matthew Bell: I think probably pain, right? People generally make decisions based on pleasure or pain. I think, it was pain for me, I was an eclectic sales background. Medical sales, pharmaceutical sales. Worked for Pella, windows and doors, was in commercial roofing. And my last job was in medical sales. It’s cutthroat, biz. It was tough being in the hospital, setting a know, a lot of sick folks. 

And it’s very much a kind of, I don’t know. what have you done for me lately? Kind of feeling, and I was ready for change. And one of my best friends, Tyson Schutze, owns, a turnkey brokerage in Augusta, Georgia. He and I had talked over the years about working with him in various areas. maybe coming down to Augusta to learn the business. he had me read Rich Dad, Poor dad. Right? 

Like so many of us have read as a first kind of box to check. Then he challenged me to get my real estate license. He said, if you get your real estate license, I know you’re serious. And so, five weeks later, had my real estate license in Kentucky. It’s where I was based at the time, moved to Augusta, Georgia to work with him and learn the business. It’s been a ride since I got into real estate.

 I moved down to Augusta on a wing and a prayer. a loan against my four hundred and one K and my mother’s four hundred and one K. Sixty, grand, I think is what I moved with and yeah, right. That doesn’t go very far in real, was I had flipped a couple. I did a couple creative financing deals was just absorbing, reading, investing in myself. trying to go to, I think, Family Reunion with Keller Williams. was the very first conference that I ever paid for as an investment in myself. 

But, anyway, I was doing a lot of different things at an average level. maybe good, but not great. And I was down to, I think, like four grand. We had the discussion like, am I going to go back to Louisville, Kentucky. with my tail between my legs or am I going to try to stay the course and get focused? 

And that was the decision. I started working as a buyer’s agent. almost exclusively working with his kind of regional investment base. and started bird dogging homes for those guys to buy. then we would renovate and then rent them out for them. Gosh shortly after that, in walked at, a large hedge fund. Started working with them about a year into real estate. Thankfully, I was fluent by then,we renovated 5000 homes. in about a four and a half year period in 17 cities and eleven states. 

They ended up being, I think, one of the top ten funds in the country. Conrax, they got rolled up. But anyway, co directors of renovation, he and I both relocated to Charleston to work for them. It’s been just a tornado ever since. Know, paradigm shifting in every way. Left the fund about four years ago and started buying and selling for myself. 

We made those guys a lot of money, made a lot of money doing it ourselves. but they started going kind of corporate and I’m a little bit allergic to that environment. anyway, got my operating businesses, brokerage, investment firm. We’re in three cities now and still trying to figure it out. Just failing forward like usual.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that. Matthew, thank you so much for sharing that 4000 house. Oh my God, that sounds like a production and a half. Some people are like, how can I flip one house, let alone all of that? It’s amazing.

So, question for you, what did you want to be growing up as a kid

Pamela Bardhi: So, question for you, what did you want to be growing up as a kid? What was your dream?

Matthew Bell: I don’t know that I’ve ever had kind of one thing. certainly not from like an occupation standpoint, I guess. I’m kind of one of those weird birds I knew I wanted to be a dad from an early age. Got two great kids now, and that’s great. But no, I was good at a bunch of different stuff. 

Kind of could have gone in probably four or five different directions. got a marketing degree because my dad had one. Like no real drive in any direction. And then I was just miserable in a few sales roles there at the end. before I decided to take a leap of faith and start betting on myself.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that. Growing up, who or what inspired you the most?

Matthew Bell: Wow. I always point to my parents, I mean, certainly great upbringing. We didn’t ever really want for anything. We weren’t necessarily super well off by any means. but know, food on the table every night. Went to good schools. I think that I’ve had a few different people inside. Like, a math teacher in high school really was, an inspiring figure. Mr. Gonder. haven’t said his name in years, but, yeah, just different people. 

It’s weird. It’s like when the student is ready, the teacher appears kind of thing. I feel like different points. I was ready for different things and ended up kind of  connecting with the right people at the right time. It takes a village to succeed at a high level, and it takes a lot of failure. Hard lessons, et cetera.

 But I’ve had a bunch of good. I mean, Tyson, the guy that was my business partner when I first got into real, mean. it’s my first mentor in real estate. Changed my life in a lot of ways. Still one of my best friends. I’m pretty blessed in regards to the mentor stuff throughout my life.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that. so, like, walk me through childhood and then past high the what was the journey?

Matthew Bell: I was just kind know, the kid that played soccer growing up. We were in Wisconsin. I was born in loveland. I’m kind of a mutt, so I was born in Loveland, Colorado. The great flood of 1977, and the big Thompson River washed my parents house away in 1977. So we moved into the city, and then a year later, we’re living in Wisconsin. We were in Wisconsin until I was ten. Causing all kinds of trouble, just like every other kid does at that age. And then we relocated. 

My father was in healthcare administration, and, he relocated to, Louisville, Kentucky. which is where Humana was based when humana was still a hospital. And not just insurance. so we were in Louisville for the vast majority of my life, 25 years, I think. I moved to Augusta, Georgia, and then Charleston behind it. after finding my way through into real estate and then through the fund experience.

 And down in Charleston, happy as can be, married with two kids. and still trying to get it right. In real know, the rules change at such a frequent like. When you feel like you got it figured out, something else changes. So it’s kind of perpetual change, especially in the last 14 months. which we were talking about earlier, right?

Pamela Bardhi: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, man. And we’ll get into that for sure.

Prior to real estate, you had a disdain for the corporate world

Pamela Bardhi: Now throughout your life and career, it could be either or. But what were some of your biggest struggles and what were the biggest lessons learned from that?

Matthew Bell: I think prior to real estate, just kind of like ADBC or whatever, prior to real estate. I think it was really hard for me to and this is where my disdain for the corporate world started. When I see an apple, I like to call it an apple and not an orange. when I see a square, I call it a square instead of a circle. Like the corporate world, you end up having to subscribe to behavior and ideology. that goes completely against what you know is right. 

Because it’s so politically charged. And I just hated that. I’ve always been somebody that’s transparent. Wear my emotion on my sleeve. I am who I am. I’m very comfortable in my own skin. And since I’ve been in real estate, I’ve really been able to live that a lot easier. Being an entrepreneur, you tend to set your own rules. although you feel like you, get into business for yourself, to work for yourself. but then you end up working for everybody. 

So it’s like, you got a million bosses now. but we’ve got a great culture at our companies. I feel like it’s an extension of who I am. And yeah, we just try to do it the right way for the right reasons. There’s a lot of bad actors in real estate, as you know. I think that it’s too bad. 

You can succeed at such a high level by doing it the right way. that the people that don’t, I think they choose to be bad people. It just makes no sense to me. So, anyway, I’m lucky that I can do it and do it the right way. and take care of people and really try to help everyone win, myself included, my team included, through real estate. It’s important.

Pamela Bardhi: Right. And real estate is really like a long term type of business, and it’s very difficult to build. As you know, most people walk away if you really don’t have a passion for it. You’re gone pretty fast because it’s a long game.

When you had Wall Street money behind you, it was easier to scale

Pamela Bardhi: How did you start into the game? And, how did you scale at the level that you did?

Matthew Bell: Yeah, so, I mean, it was a lot easier to scale on someone else’s nickel. when we had the Wall Street money behind us, we were able to fail forward without feeling as much pain. Now, since I’ve been gone from the fund and I’m on my own nickel now. it’s been a little bit different. Animal. I still believe that failing forward is a necessary part, of the process. But we would hire a guy in each city and we would manage that person and build their business. 

We didn’t ever want to talk to the plumbers and the electricians and trades, and that was too granular. But we tried to find somebody who was young hungry, entrepreneurial, talented. maybe had tried before on their own and failed. Without the right support. And we built a lot of really big construction businesses in these different cities for the fund. Our biggest guys were doing I think we had a few guys that were doing 30 houses a month. birmingham and Columbia at their height. 

And, those people don’t exist. You have to build those folks up to that. So I’m still working on it. Frustratingly. My construction kind of vertical has not been able to service third party yet. I’m still not to that iteration because we can’t seem to chew through our own assets. 

So we’ve scaled our brokerage and are scaling our brokerage. we’re in three cities now. And we’ve scaled our investment firm also in three cities atlanta, Augusta, Columbia. I mentioned earlier to you, but it’s a work in progress and it takes a long time. To your point, you got to be in it for the long haul. 

You got to be in it for far more than money. I think to your point earlier, folks that washout. I think the allure of making big money or quick money or whatever it is. brings a lot of people in. But you’re not going to stay the course if that’s all it’s about. You got to have some passion behind it. So thankfully I have that. And we’ve got a team that has that too.

Pamela Bardhi: That’s amazing. 

Matthew and I always have entrepreneurs asking me how to get started in real estate

Pamela Bardhi: Matthew and I always have entrepreneurs asking me. like, how the hell do you even get started in real estate? What’s the first step? Because this industry has a million and a half different verticals that you could go. So it’s like for somebody who’s listening right now. that’s like, how did he get started? What are some tips that you would say for somebody starting off. that may want to go down a similar path as you? And what were some of the biggest takeaways kind of throughout your journey?

Matthew Bell: Yeah, I think you can certainly start by getting your license. I mean, that’s decent from an educational standpoint. The challenge with the licensure process is it doesn’t teach you how to be a successful business person. And far too many people get their license and then get thrown out into the big ocean. it’s sink or swim. I think starters on the off market side, wholesalers tend to.

 I think, be the starting point because you can do texting. you can do cold calling and some of those lower cost marketing avenues and generate, some deal flow that way. To get to where you’re buying and selling and doing it at scale. you have to have systems, you have to have funds, you have to have a lot of experience. but don’t be afraid is what I would say to the people. that are trying to figure out how to get into it.  

It’s called just taking action. That is fundamentally what every entrepreneur does. especially the successful ones, they pivot and they take action immediately. even if it’s imperfect action and figure it out. it’s just every journey is iterative. You’re going to fail, you’re going to bump your head into the wall. and then you’re not going to do it again. If you’re smart and I, would just say take action. I wish I would have gotten into real estate a decade before I did. I promise you that.

Pamela Bardhi: I feel like everyone in real estate says the same thing. They’re like, I wish I got into it sooner, damn it. Oh, crap. There’s so many people out there now that are like, I want to get into real estate. I want to do this, I want to do that. And for me, I’ve always said you got to decide whether you want active or passive income. what works with your lifestyle, right? Because you and I, Matthew, we’re all in. 

We’re like, we don’t do the whole corporate thing. We’re rogue, and we do what we want to do. You know what I mean? So real estate is like a perfect outlet for that. But for those who are a little bit more conservative, that do have the traditional jobs. there’s nothing wrong with that. But I always tell them, I’m like, you can invest in funds, you can raise capital. you can invest in established kind of asset management companies.

 I mean, there’s funds. There’s all kinds of things to provide. You dividends on your money. You don’t have to just drop everything and go. Although, of course, you absolutely can. Like you said, you need to learn the game. then build the systems and processes and everything kind of that goes alongside with it. So it’s an interesting thing.

Matthew Bell: I think you bring up an interesting point. and maybe that’s a segue to kind of what we’re doing now and moving forward. But you’re right. You don’t have to be an operator. I think in a lot of cases, our private lenders. the people that just have a high cash flowing dental position. or whatever it may be, putting their money to work where their money is. making money without the toilets, tenants and termites, as the cliche goes.

 I think a lot of times our lenders make almost as much as we do. I really believe that they, come close. In fact, I know they do, and they don’t have any of the headaches that come with it. And it’s still backed by a hard asset. It’s a fantastic way to invest without doing the heavy lifting, for sure.

Pamela Bardhi: Absolutely. And that’s the passive side of the business. So I tell everyone, I’m like, listen, there’s ways for you to get involved. where you’re not just, like, risking everything, quitting your job and going into it. So I love that you mentioned that there’s opportunity for people to really do this on a passive level.

 and you don’t have to own multifamily to do that. You could just invest in somebody to do it really for you. which is how you’ve built your model out to date. That’s kind of what you’re working on now. Matthew. Yes, we talk a little bit more about that.

You mentioned you were with the fund and then transition into this

Pamela Bardhi: So how did you kind of shift from what you were doing before with all the flips and everything? You mentioned you were with the fund and then transition into this?

Matthew Bell: Yeah, so when I left the fund about four years ago. wanted to create something that was similar but not quite as scaled. There was a lot of time spent on airplanes as you can imagine back then. and I would not do the same thing again with two young children now. But yeah, we wanted to get into real estate buying and selling for ourselves. 

We will buy, renovate and sell. That’s the flip. We also will buy, renovate and refinance. I’ve kept, I think, 30 rentals in the last 18 months because I want that residual income. And now in an effort to get away from some of the private lending. allow us to be a little bit more agile and maybe take some bigger bites.

 if you will, do some bigger deals. we’re raising a $5 million, fund right now and that’s the website where I’ve got a VSL. right explanation on why it makes sense to be a lender or potentially invest in the fund. It’s a great way to get into the business without taking some lumps, as the operator, for sure. 

But hopefully we get that raised up. We maybe take down some multifamily. maybe some self storage, maybe some portfolio acquisitions. I think there’s going to be some opportunity for all of the above. here in the next twelve to 18 months with the shift going on right now. And hopefully we’ve got some dry powder to make some good purchases.

Pamela Bardhi: Absolutely.

3 trillion worth of commercial real estate assets coming due in the next 18 months

Pamela Bardhi: And walk me through a deal that would be a home run for you. So what to really look for in an acquisition because we are coming into a time where. there’s a lot that’s going to be flooding the market. For those of you who don’t know, you’re going to hear it from me time and time again. because we’ve got 3 trillion worth of commercial real estate assets coming due in the next 18 months. 

And what that basically means is. the commercial markets across the United States are going to be an absolute shit show. No other way to say it. You just got to prepare yourself. So everybody who’s been hoarding cash, I already know. Some of the biggest companies like JPMorgan Chase and all the big dogs. all the equity funds have been literally hoarding cash, waiting for something like this to go down.

 So it’s super important to understand how do you go in and acquire. what to look for in these, you know, some of them could be office buildings. that you’re going to convert into residential. what metrics to look for, and that kind of thing. Because whether you’re doing it yourself or you’re investing in a fund. you want to make sure, like, okay, hey, what are we targeting? And staying ahead of the curve for the long term value?

Matthew Bell: 100%. I think a lot of people do kind of a syndication deal structure when they’re buying multifamily. That’s basically like a one asset fund, as you know. So I think the biggest thing is, can you add value? Because when you get into the bigger commercial and the multifamily. the valuation is derived from net operating income. 

And so you have some control points that you don’t have in single family. Single family valuations obviously come from comping the comparative valuations of the houses. that are bought and sold in the immediate area for the beginners on the podcast here. But yeah, the bigger assets, I mean, you want to say, hey, can I raise the rent? Can I lower some costs in overhead? can I do both? 

I think that’s what you’re looking for when you’re talking about commercial, multifamily. Can I raise rents? Is the management in place dysfunctional in some way? Could you take utilities and have the tenants pay for utilities, et cetera? And you can really jump up the value of what you’re buying. So it’s important to get a discount on the front end if you can. But it’s even more important than that, in my opinion. that the value add opportunity is a part of the deal. For sure.

Pamela Bardhi: Absolutely. And it’s interesting because and this is what I keep telling everyone. I’m like, listen, you look at commercial assets just because everyone’s like, retail is dying. I’m like, yes, retail is kind of dead. It is, I’m not going to lie to you. But what that means is you’re going to do it on the flip side. and see where the demand comes in, which is in the industrial footprint. 

So now the retail is getting smaller, but the industrial footprint is getting bigger. it’s not that anything’s dying, it’s just shifting demand. So how do you move accordingly? And when it comes to the retail spot, the only thing that these retailers can’t compete with. like Amazon and stuff like that, when it comes to product products. you can pretty much go online and comp anything out. 

The key is creating a customer experience. That’s really what all the retailers are going for now. and that’s why they have a smaller footprint, which is totally cool. So just know where your demand is going. Like, if there’s an office building. could you create it into a co working space, which has ridiculous demand right now? Could you convert it into residential? So it’s like, watch consumer behavior. 

Don’t be afraid to go with logic, because I think that what happens. A lot of the time is like, these big funds and all this stuff. They’re like, well, this is what we’ve had. this is what’s been tested and true. And it’s like, that’s great. But if you don’t shift with the market. there’s going to be significant issues in what you’re doing. So it’s just fascinating.

The key is you’re adding value through conversion, Matthew says

Pamela Bardhi: The value add, like you were saying, even looking at different properties. are you in a city that will allow you to build an accessory dwelling unit? Could you add that in? Maximize your property footprint? I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

Matthew Bell: The key is you’re adding value, like you said, conversion. But that’s what you’re speaking to. I mean, that’s a fantastic idea to convert an asset. Take a hotel and carve it up into a bunch of condos and sell out individual condos. I mean, there’s tons of people doing stuff like that. because the hotels aren’t post COVID, aren’t getting, the use that they had pre COVID. so on and so forth. 

Anyway, shopping malls, to your point, strip malls, retail stuff. it’s just not going to be used in the same way that it has been historically given. Everybody working remotely, shopping online, et cetera. It’s changing. So whoever figures out what to do with shopping malls, for instance, is going to just crush it. Half of our shopping mall actually got purchased, and converted into a, medical office space, for our local hospital. which I thought was pretty interesting. 

Conversion. but, yeah, there’s all kinds of stuff. I think, to your point, you just have to be aware of the direction. of whatever the asset, group is, and see if you can land ahead of.

Pamela Bardhi: Absolutely. Matthew it’s all about adding the value at the end of the day. And then the more creative you are. the first you are to market, or the more brave. the more money that you’re able to make.

Matthew Bell: Right.

Pamela Bardhi: High risk, high reward. And that’s just how the game goes. As long as the numbers make sense and it’s logical. it’s not something to the moon and back. But there’s going to be so much opportunity, so much opportunity coming.

Do you have any other tips for anybody who is preparing for change

Pamela Bardhi: Do you have any other tips for anybody who is like, well, crap. how do I prepare for this mess, that’s coming?

Matthew Bell: Yeah, I think although I said action. and I still firmly believe taking action is, mandatory, for change. I would say it’s not always the appropriate action. to take to move into buying and selling or renovating right out of the gate. I think I mentioned earlier when I went to the Kw Conference.

 investing in yourself and the education and learning. from other folks in your network that might be a part of your team. I’d say always start with investing in yourself. and then I think you’ll figure out what direction is going to feel. Post that because you don’t know what you don’t.

Pamela Bardhi: Love that.

What would your older self tell your younger self based on what you know now

Pamela Bardhi: And then this is my favorite question ever. And this could be business or personal, whatever resonates with you. What would your older self tell your younger self based on what you know now. aside from getting into real estate sooner?

Matthew Bell: Yeah, that’s for sure. That’s a given. I think in the last few years, I’ve been a part of some mastermind groups that. focus on how do you live the life of your dreams now. I think people convince themselves that they need far more money. than they really do to live the life that they want. And so I think I would go back and tell myself that it’s not all on the line every single day. 

And the intensity. Although it’s important to have the focus and the intensity. Maybe not being so hard on myself. I think coming through some of those lessons and enjoy the ride. you really can build a life around what you say is most important to you. Like, I cook my son breakfast every single morning,  take him to school. love to read every day, I, exercise every day. most people are like, how do you do that and work? Well, I work 20 to 25 hours a week and we still crush it’s. Possible.

Pamela Bardhi: Love that. I, absolutely love that. I know sometimes money is just not the answer. It’s the freedom of the time, right. To choose what you want to do. And sometimes you could be even more productive if you actually do those things. Like you said, read and exercise every day. so that you’re almost, like, biohacking your time and your time management. I love that.

Make Me the bank is raising capital for a hard money lending fund

Pamela Bardhi: And as you mentioned, you kind of touched on it a little bit earlier.but what’s up in your world in the next few months? What’s happening?

Matthew Bell: Yeah, so we’re working on the raise. It’s $5 million fund. It’ll, be a hard money lending fund. And, it’s meant to, again, free up the operating business. maybe allow some larger acquisitions. So we’re working on that. I’ve co branded Make Me the bank and the stock alternative. which I love, because I think it’s really timely right now. 

But, I’ve partnered with a gal out of Phoenix. She’s fantastic. Her name is Amy Cooper. We’re just charging off into this capital, I think, direction. I think there’s going to be a lot of buying opportunities in the next twelve to 18. like we’ve talked about, months. And we just want to have some dry powder. I’ve got the ability to chew through assets. We’ve learned how to do that. Right. 

And we’re working on making sure we’ve got the capital to really buy and sell strategically. as the opportunities start to come back around. It’s been tight this last couple of three years, but I think it’s coming. I mean, there’s a lot. Of leading indicators that would tell you it’s coming. So it’s what we’re working on, trying to raise capital.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that Matthew. It’s amazing. So for anyone who’s interested in getting in touch with you. or maybe is interested in investing in the fund or anything like that. what’s the best place to reach you?

Matthew Bell: Yeah. So you go to and watch the video sales letter that I filmed. It’s only 13 minutes, I think, and you’ll actually learn a lot about lending and, real estate. The stock alternative. also is a fund related website, same thing. We’ve got some educational information on that. And if you’d like to set up a call, just click the links and fill out the web form. I’m accessible, 

Amy Cooper’s accessible and love to connect. it doesn’t even have to necessarily be about the fun stuff. I’m a teacher, right. I love to educate, I love doing things like this with you. Thank you again for having me. I try to help everybody,  I want everybody to win in real estate and, change lives for the better. 

And that includes everybody that we touch.  Appraisers, closing, attorneys, agents.  the folks that are distressed that we might be buying assets from. I mean, it’s just my team, right? I want everybody to win. So anything I can help people with is always an open invitation.

Pamela Bardhi: I love it.

Matthew Miller shares his insight on what’s coming in the real estate market

Pamela Bardhi: Matthew, thank you so much for being here today. for offering your insight. telling us kind of what’s next and how to prepare for these really, interesting markets. that are about to surface all across the US. So thank you so much for being here today, my friend. Appreciate you.

Matthew Bell: Thank you. Appreciate you having me.

Pamela Bardhi: So that’s it for today’s episode of Underdog. Catch us next week. Always dropping on Thursdays. And remember, if you’re interested in real estate. or want to learn how to create more money and magic in your life. check out and let’s chat. Sending you so, so much love. 

Tune in to the episode to hear the rest of my incredible interview with Matthew Bell. If you found this story worth your time and made changes in your life, we’d love to hear from you! Subscribe and leave a review. The Underdog Podcast host is none other than Pamela Bardhi. She’s rocking the Real Estate Realm and has dedicated her life as a Life Coach. She is also Forbes Real Estate Council. To know more about Pam, check out the following:

If you’re interested in elevating your life 10x, and owning your power, Pamela invites you to join her for a 15-minute call to set your goals straight and get clarity. Start building your game plan now: