Brenden Kumarasamy’s Bold Leap from Numbers to MasterTalk from the Ground Up

Pamela Bardhi: Hi, I’m Kevin Harrington, an original shark from the hit television show Shark Tank. And you’re listening to the underdog podcast. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Underdog podcast. Today I have an incredible guest here with me, my friend Brenden.

Brenden Kumarasamy: How are you, Pam? Life’s a gift. I’m doing great, how about you?

Pamela Bardhi: I’m doing awesome. You had me at, life’s a gift. I was like, anyone who responds that way is my people, hands down.

Brenden Kumarasamy: You know, I try to remind myself of that quote, too. That’s why I keep repeating it, to remind myself that life really is a gift, too. So there you go.

Pamela Bardhi: It sure is, and right before this, you know, we were talking. I was like, I was looking at your, you know, your Instagram and just everything. All your socials, and I’m like, man, I just love his energy. It’s so beautiful. And literally, you help immigrants communicate their dream to the world, which is, I think, so amazing. I resonate a lot on the immigrant side because I was born in Albania. Came to the US when my parents came with nothing. They won the visa lottery and came here. So I’m sure there’s a lot to unpack that we’re going to get into there.

But I’m just so excited because you’re just so full of life and awesome. I just, like, can’t wait to hear the story of how Brendan came to be. And how you got to master talk and all this magic that you’ve created so far. So I’m just super excited, and in the beginning, I always like to reel it all the way back. Because, honestly, there’s always an origination point, right? It’s funny how life comes full circle sometimes.

Brenden is from Albania and became an accountant later in life

So, Brendan, question for you, what did you want to be when you grew up? What was your dream?

Brenden Kumarasamy: I don’t think you’ll believe it when I say this, Pat. So when I was twelve years old, you know, they. In French, because I’m based in Montreal, we call it l’album de Finissan, which means, like the. I think we call it the yearbook or something in English where everyone says, when they’re in high school. When they’re in elementary school, what they want to be when they’re growing up. And, you know, people say astronaut or actor or something like that, I wrote accountant. The reason I wrote accountant, since you come from a family of immigrants as well, you’re taught to be pragmatic.

I think that, honestly, is the right strategy for most people. Be pragmatic, get a really good job, and I’m really glad I did that. So the bottom line, I looked at my report, Cardinal. And I realized, I don’t know how I came to this realization at twelve mates. Because we didn’t have a lot of money growing up and I just needed to make it work. I became an accountant later in life, and then life took a completely different turn, which we’ll talk about later.

I was really good at math and I was really bad at everything else in school path. It was obvious that I should do something related to math. But then when I saw the other kids who were smarter than me in school, in my classroom. Who wanted to be doctors, engineers, or like, so the lawyers and the stuff. I was like, okay, well, no one wants to be an accountant. If I’m the only one in the room who wants to be one, and I’m great at math, I could probably do it. So I just never changed my mind. For seven years.

Pamela Bardhi: Interesting. Oh my. Do you know, like I would have never bet, accountant? Never. You’re so, like, extroverted. So let me tell you. Math, I hated it, to the nth degree. Except for geometry. Geometry and chemistry, I was a monster. I’m talking like over 100%, like over 100 grade point average. Like, it was like 102, I was. I would do extra credit for no reason and be a killer at both of those. Bring me algebra, I die, I just pass out. That’s it, that was it.

Brenden Kumarasamy: I’m the opposite too, so I was terrible at chemistry and physics. I did that in my last year of high school. Horrible, horrible. Well, horrible in my culture means seventies and eighties, right? Seventies and eighties means, like you can’t do anything with it. Whereas in math, I was scoring the hundreds and the nineties because it just made sense to me. But yeah, and chem in physics, you got me beat 100%, and I just couldn’t hold the candle. And I’m scared of blood too, so there’s no way I could have become a doctor. So I crushed my parents’ dreams on that, too.

Pamela Bardhi: It’s so funny. Well, you’re saying, you mentioned like, with the whole immigrant mentality about the pragmatic system. Cause I think the reason why that’s so instilled is because if you don’t do that. Then you get stuck with something, with manual labor, right? So which is what happens, right? And so, like, my parents, for example, we came, so my parents won the visa lottery to come here. We lived in Italy at the time, in Rome, Italy, I was born in Tirana, Albania. Literally my parents left during the communist collapse, so in 1991.

And so basically, like, they had been trying for years to get to the US via the lottery system. My grandmother put their names in then that’s when they won. When they came here, they didn’t have that pragmatic experience. Like, my dad was just doing whatever he could to make ends meet. So it was like three jobs, like roofing, putting away photos at Kodak, at the factory. Then, like, restaurants, back of house, like, things that are manual labor. I think that has a lot to do with it. You know, so that way you don’t get stuck in a job like that, that’s physically demanding.

That’s probably where that whole pragmatic piece comes in, because I see it with a lot of immigrant families. I mean, that’s what my parents wanted for me, too. You know, when I was in college, they’re like, hey, Pam, you know, you work a corporate job. You can open up a business later. Don’t do what we did in the restaurant business. And then, of course, I opened up two restaurants by the time I was 21. So, it was written in the soul, right? But it’s just so interesting because of that immigrant background, I think there’s so much to that.

Were you born and raised in Canada before becoming an accountant

But I would love to walk through your journey of becoming, maybe backing it up before even becoming accounting. Were you here in the US when you wanted to become an accountant?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, so I actually am born and raised in Canada, so I come to the US. So most of my client base, my business in the US. Like, I was in Michigan for three weeks. I just got back from Nashville and I’m going to LA next month. I’m in the states probably 25% of the year. But to your point, yeah, so my parents, similar story. There was a civil war in Sri Lanka, I think, in the eighties. Don’t quote me on the year, though.

Then they fled as war refugees to Canada, and they got pretty much immediate citizenship because of that. And then I was born in Canada, and then I’ve been living here my whole life. I’ve thought about moving to the states because most of my business is there. But honestly, life isn’t just about money. Like, I really like Canada. I love my family here, and, hey, making us dollars in a Canadian economy is a good thing. So I ain’t complaining. Absolutely.

Pamela Bardhi: Canada is so awesome. Everyone I’ve met in Canada is, like, incredible. You’re in a good place, you’re in a good place, my friend. That’s amazing.

Brenden Kumarasamy: We both are, that’s the key.

You were born and raised in Montreal, so you love Montreal

Where are you based in the States?

Pamela Bardhi: Boston, Massachusetts.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Boston. Gotcha, gotcha.

Pamela Bardhi: Yeah. How about you? Where are you in Canada?

Brenden Kumarasamy: I’m in Montreal.

Pamela Bardhi: Montreal is so amazing. I think I made it to Montreal when I was 17 with my cousin’s id. That’s the only way that I could get.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, that’s true.

Pamela Bardhi: But it was so beautiful out there. Oh my goodness. So you basically were born and raised there.

Brenden Kumarasamy: That’s great, and I still live there, so I love Montreal. Montreal is my favorite. I haven’t been to Boston yet. I’m probably sure I’m due for a visit at some point, but yeah, I love Montreal. It’s the best, it’s got that mix of european esque feeling while still people work hard. So it’s a great mix. And I love food, I’m a big foodie, so having great food in Montreal is not a bad thing for sure.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that, I love that.

How did you end up from accountant to master communicator

I want to walk through your journey. How did you end up from accountant master communicator? I mean, this is a pretty big jump, my friend. You go from spreadsheets to stages. It’s an interesting balance.

Brenden Kumarasamy: I mean, what you just said there, I think is my lesson from this podcast, I never thought about it. From spreadsheets to stages. That’s a really good question. Actually, steal that one for you, so I’m just putting it on the records. If you see that, it’s because I stole it, I plagiarized Pam. So what happened? It’s a long story. But I’ll keep it short and then feel free to ask any follow up questions that you’re called to Pam.

Brenden was born in Albania and came to the United States at five

I’m twelve years old, right, I want to be an accountant, so what happens in this journey? So honestly, for seven years, not much happens in that journey. I studied really hard, I wasn’t doing great in school, in elementary school. Then one day I kind of woke up in high school. And I said I started to really appreciate the opportunity that my parents gave me. Because when you’re ten, you’re nine years old, I’m sure you can relate to this. Being a kid born in Albania, so for you it’s a little bit. What age did you come to the States?

Pamela Bardhi: Five.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Okay. Yeah, so I think you could still relate to what I’m saying for sure. So it’s like when you come from the family of immigrants and you haven’t really been in a war zone. Or you haven’t really lived in a third world country, you don’t really appreciate the opportunity that you’re given. It’s like you’re somebody’s given. Even if you grew up poor like I did, I didn’t really come from a big, both my parents were wage. But even despite that, you don’t appreciate how amazing it is to be in a country like the US in Canada. Because anything is possible, having a green card is crazy. Like, I have clients today who have been working in the US for 15 years who are making really good money. Still don’t have a green card. That is wild, right? So that’s the, yeah.

Just because of the immigration, process become a lot more challenging in the United States. But the reason I tell you that is at some point when I was 13, I just woke up. And I said, you know, I don’t want to screw this up. Like, this is a great opportunity, I want to do well. So I studied my butt off all of those seventies and eighties and sixties and fifties that I was getting at school. Especially in French, I was practically barely passing. All my grades skyrocket, I probably ended high school with like an average of like 91% or something. Or 88, I don’t remember. But I was doing really good just because I put myself. I put effort, which I wasn’t doing. Then I positioned myself, I got into a great college, university in business school, and I really came with the mindset.

At this point in the story, I’m 19 years old and I’m going, I need to get a job. I need to get a job in accounting, I spent my whole life studying for this. I’m going to do it, and at this point, I still don’t even know what an accountant does. I just know I’m good at math and I’m doing well in the exam. So it’s like, I can do this. This is the first pivotal moment in my career. Somebody comes up to me and says, you know, Brendan, it’s a guy named Brian. He said he was just like two years older than me. He said, you should work for one of the big four accounting firms. And I said, what the frick is that?

I don’t understand what this is. Price Waterhouse, Coopers, KPMG, Ernest and young Deloitte. It is a little boring, so I’ll keep this one part short. Basically, these four companies are big accounting firms in the world. You can google them and, like, everyone wants to work with them. It’s kind of like when you’re playing basketball as a kid, you want to get drafted into the NBA? This is the NBA, It’s just a lot less competitive than the NBA. So then I start networking with students who are doing better than me, who have jobs. They’re like Jesus to me, they’re gods. They have a job at KPMG waiting for them, and I said, how did you get this job? And Pam, what they told me shocked me.

They didn’t say, study hard, like I’ve been doing my whole life, they said, do case competitions. I’m sitting here like your audience right now confused. Like, what in the world is a case competition? Basically what they explained, pam, and this trickles into master talk now. There were basically competitions that you do professionally, but their presentations. So instead of doing, like, basketball competitively, like a jock does, I’m a nerd. I did presentations competitively to get a job. Got really good at presentations, started mentoring kids in college for free just to help them win competitions. And I accidentally became the world’s youngest communication coach.

Pamela Bardhi: And you were 19 at the time?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, I was 19. So I’m 28 now, so this is my 9th year in the industry.

Pamela Bardhi: That is amazing, so you just slayed it at presentations, which is amazing. And that’s so good because in the accounting firms, like, nobody wants to talk. So if you do, like, the disc assessments and all of that. You know, a lot of them fall under the c compatibility side of things.

Brenden says he focused on presentation skills to become a partner

Are you familiar with disk profiles? So they would be underneath that umbrella, which I think is super interesting. Which I think is super, super interesting, so I’m like, isn’t that fascinating? Like, to focus on the presentation skills. Because how many people that are working there that are super good accountants are also good presenters.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Correct, and it’s a very small percentage of people. Most of those people are often partners, which is super boring for your audience. Well, explain it. So how these firms work, kind of like law firms. You start being like, you’re working really hard and you’re doing stuff for clients. But then eventually, in the future, you become a sales rep. Essentially, you’re getting business for the company. And that’s why I wanted to be a partner, honestly. Because life for me until I was 220 to 22 was pretty much all about money. It was all about money, I didn’t care if I was happy.

And I’m sure a lot of immigrants listening can relate to what I’m saying. Like, we don’t optimize our life for passions and happiness. We optimize our life for stability, because we never had stability growing up as kids. So I didn’t really care if I liked accounting. I just really liked that I was great at it and I was better at 95% of the people in my class. That’s why I focused on it, I didn’t do presentations or, ah, case competition. I’m not going to tell some B’s story about how Brennan fell in love with speaking. He has a passion for communication.

I do now, obviously, but like, at the time, it was just about getting the job. It’s just what I didn’t expect, and this was the surprise? Well, two things surprised me. One, that I would fall in love with case competitions. Like, the first 40 people I coached were for free, I didn’t know it was a business. And then the second thing that I did, never expected in a million years. Is that I would quit a six figure job that I spent my whole life getting to start a business. Now that, well, that was definitely a shock, but to everybody in my life. But hey, there you go, that’s life’s turn.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that, I love it.

Like case competitions, almost nobody knows what they are

And let’s walk through those a little bit, like these case competitions or whatever. I can be a guinea pig right now. So, like, what do these things look like? Because I’ve to be honest, I’ve never heard of them.

Brenden Kumarasamy: That is 100% fair, by the way, Pam. I’m glad you asked because maybe like, out of all the shows I’ve done, maybe 2% of the hosts asked. Like, what is a case competition? So I’m happy to explain it because the first time I started getting on shows, it didn’t make sense. And I was like, why does it make sense? Then I realized, oh, right, because like case competitions, almost nobody knows what they are. Let’s compare debating to case competition, so we’re all familiar with debate, right? It’s like, okay, we see politicians in the US debating each other. There’s debate clubs in high school and college, and in a debate you have a very touchy subject. 

Abortion, climate change, you put any hot topic there that’s touchy, insensitive. Then you have, people have to fight for opposing views. You have to fight both sides of the aisle. The winner is the person who makes the best argument. Pretty simple, right? That’s what debating is. Case competitions are very different. So let’s say Nike comes up to us, and Nike has been, case competition sponsor for these competitions. Walmart was a big one that we had as well. And like, Nike comes up to us and says, you know, Pam, you know, Brendan. I’m thinking about spending money to open a brand new store in a brand new location. But I’m not sure if I should spend the money opening one in Shanghai, China. Or should I open it in New York City.

Here are the stores that I already have in both of these countries or these areas. This is the budget that I have and I could only get one location right now. Which one do you think is a better use of my money? That is an example of a case competition prompt where it’s basically a business problem. And that basically what happens after that is me and you read a 20 page document outlining both of the stories. This is just one example of these types of cases. Me and you come up with slides, we come with ideas. At the end of the 3 hours, we have to present our solution, often to the actual executives of the company. Best solution, best solution wins the game, that’s basically the idea.

Case competitions are the best recruiting tools for students out of college, Pam says

Now we get to the million dollar question, Brendan. Why do companies do this? And the answer is really simple. Pam pace competitions in my view, and a lot of companies who know about this circuit believe in it, too. They are the best recruiting tools for students out of college. The best recruiting tools, so let’s say I’m Nike, I’ll spend. This is a real thing, I know this sounds crazy, I will spend ten, $20,000 to sponsor a case. Competition and a case. Because I know kids in their twenties don’t have the answer. Like, duh, they’re like college kids. But what I’m paying attention to is who’s taking the competition seriously. So my teams, I mean, I call them killers, right? I would braid a bunch of these killers to go out to these competitions.

I’m like the Michael Jordan nobody gives a shit about. That’s the way I describe myself, right, to people who ask me the question and go deep enough. Where it’s like, I was exactly like Michael Jordan when I was in college. That is why I grew really fast in my industry. And that’s why I got all the accolades they did, is because I was just as obsessed. But I don’t get any flack for it because it’s case, competitions, basketball. He’s going to get a lot of hate for it, but because it’s a popular sport. So what would happen is like, we build these teams, Nike would sponsor the competition. Teams would go and most of them were pretty good, but then one team would be like, boom.

That would be our team often or other schools that were really good. Then the executives would go, that kid’s presenting better than my vp right now. They would come up to you and schmooze you, they would go, like, hey, Pam, I really liked your presentation. Hey, how did you come up with the idea? And they go, hey, this is my card. I want you to call me. What they’re basically saying is, I’ll give you an automatic interview. Almost everybody who did case competitions got placed into jobs. Because Nike’s mentality, or any other company, is, if I grab you from the market. I’m making sure that you don’t go somewhere else. So that’s the kit.

Pamela Bardhi: Interesting. So it’s like a recruiting tool is fascinating. I never heard about this. This is so awesome. Oh, my gosh.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Wow. Think about it, right, Pam? Like, let’s say there’s 10,000 students in a business school. So, I’m Nike, and I’m thinking, through which is fine. I’ve never even gone to these details in front of podcasts, so I’m enjoying myself. And out of these 10,000, you know. I want to hire, let’s say, 20 for my leadership program every year out of this specific school. Well, which 20 do I pick? Well, out of those 10,000. How many of them are just going to school, checking the boxes, and getting good grades? Maybe 80, 90% of them. I’m not really interested in hiring those people because that’s not really the business world. Whereas the out of the thousand that are remaining.

How many of them are doing, getting involved in school, doing case competitions, taking on leadership roles in association. The number gets really small, like, I think in my, we’re around 1% of the faculty. So around 1% of our faculty, because it’s a very competitive program to get into. Then I became one of the managers. And I was, like, shitting on people and saying, you’re not ready for this program. I would only pick the best students. Well, it’s natural. Everybody wants the best, right? We all got placed, I probably got, like, five job offers. And then some other people got, like, were way better than me, got like 15 or something or ten.

Pamela Bardhi: That’s insane. Wow. That is so, it’s critical for anybody who’s listening that’s in. Like, you know, is it just for college kids or can it be, like, anyone, young professionals? Just in general?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah. Unfortunately, Pam, in this case competitions are only open to either people in business school specifically. So you have to be enrolled in a bachelor’s degree for business or you’re doing your MBA program. That’s oftentimes those are the only places. And I just got lucky that the school I went to, and it’s not like an Ivy league school or anything. I just went to school in Montreal. We just happened to have the world’s biggest case competition program there, and I didn’t know that was just luck.

Pamela Bardhi: That’s so cool. Oh, my God. What are the elements? These case competitions can be very easily applied to business, just in general, right. Because every business, every organization, needs good presenters, good communicators to give the message out. I mean, I went to Stonehill College in Easton, so it’s like 35 minutes outside of Boston. They placed Stonehill students versus Ivy league students in presentations. Actually, Stonehill students outdid them, because we’re a liberal arts school, right? So, like, we were taught, you know, multifaceted, right?

We out did Ivy League when it came to presentations. And it’s like, I tell everybody this, I’m like, listen, you can be the biggest genius in the room. You don’t know how to communicate. That genius is going nowhere, it’s going nowhere. You’re sitting right there. I have no idea what you’re saying. No idea, and you’re just like, oh, I thought, you know, and I’ve also studied neuro linguistics programming as well. So, you know, understanding the processing of information and all of that, and how people perceive what you’re saying. Because what I’m saying to you, I don’t know if it brings the same to you as it does to me.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Right.

Pamela Bardhi: Because different life experiences shape our perception of how we basically internalize everything that comes into us. Right. And communication patterns.

How well you communicate literally affects your quality of life, Pam says

So I would love to hear, like, in your experience with these. With these case competitions and just in your communications journey in general. We could touch on the communications journey in general, too. But, like, you know, what have been some of the biggest success points that have created your incredible communication skills. And how you’ve been able to kind of translate that and help others get there, you know, because it’s key. It’s critical to all areas of life.

Yes, business, of course, because it translates into money, right? But, like, your relationships and just, like, your relationship with yourself. And, you know, like, how well you communicate literally affects your quality of life. People don’t think that’s a big deal. I was a double major in entrepreneurship and communications in college, so I’m big on the communication side, without a doubt. So just be interested to hear what you had said on that. I know, I asked you, like, three loaded questions in one, so take your time.

Brenden Kumarasamy: No, no, no such thing as a loaded question by any means. Well, first, I’m not surprised you creamed the Ivy Leagues, I totally agree. Right. You know, a lot of them are taught to check boxes, and because of that, they’re not able. Some of them are very talented, though, and they’ll come out and really do really well in life. But, yeah, you’re right, you need to really. And I’m not surprised that you learned NLP, that doesn’t surprise you at all. Just based on your personnel, how you communicate, like, definitely makes sense that you’ve done NLP. That’s one piece, and then the other piece is really around the common threads. Let me answer it a little differently. So, obviously, for talking specifically about case competitions, a lot of what I learned when I started master talk frankly.

And I started making YouTube videos in my mom’s basement, that’s how this started. When I was, like, 22 or something. It turned out I was teaching olympian, athletes how to speak, and I was making a lot of mistakes in that. But then when I went back to the general public, it turns out, a lot of the principles and ideas. That I taught that group does not apply to the general public because I was just way too intense. I’d say, like, hey, you got to stay up until 02:00 a.m. and work on this and stuff. So when I was starting saying that on podcasts, people just weren’t relating to me. Which I thought was really funny, and that’s still my challenge. Not when you meet me.

But if you don’t meet me, like, and you’re just watching me kind of talk on, say, on social media and stuff. So what I ended up doing is, and this is a crossroad. Rather, in a teacher’s journey, is, do I just keep saying that I’m the best. And that I don’t need to change and just keep teaching the way that I’ve always taught it? Or do I take a step back and go. How do I simplify and systematize this knowledge in a way that any human being? Even if they’re a four year old kiddie can go, hey, you know what? I understand what Brendan is saying, and I chose option two, naturally. Let me give you one of those examples. Communication, for me, Pam, is like juggling 18 balls at the same time, right?

So one of those balls is body language, one of them storytelling. One of them is eye contact, one of them smiling. One of them is facial expression. Because of all these different balls, it is a very confusing thing to work on. And that’s the first thing I noticed in the industry. That’s why I felt I had something to say and change in it. Really, the approach that I teach a little bit today. Happy to answer more on this, is what are the three easiest balls to juggle in the same way that. Like fitness, the three easy balls to juggle are probably, eat less intermittent fasting, or at least eat healthier fruits. It’s probably, do more yoga, just walk every day. It is probably, if you can afford to get a gym membership, get a personal train. Those are probably the easy three.

What are the easy three things to learn in speaking

What are the easy three? In speaking? So let’s start with number one, and I’ll throw it back to you. Number one is an exercise I teach called the random word exercise. Pick any word that you want, headphones, hair, eyelid, sofa, ceiling, any presentation you want. And then pick a word and give a 62nd presentation and just do it on the spot. This serves two main purposes. The first one is, if you can make sense out of nonsense, you can make sense out of anything. Something to write down for people listening. If you can make sense out of nonsense, you could make sense out of anything.

If you could talk about tissue boxes and, like, trophy cases. When you go back to something you really understand and you really know, like NLP as an example. It’s very easy for you to speak on those topics because you’re doing the easier thing. And then the second piece is small talk. A lot of us struggle with small talk, but small talk, at the end of the day. Pam is two human beings having an unprepared conversation. So if you can practice the random word, you’ll be better at it. That’s what I encourage people to start with.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that, well, small talk, too, and everyone’s like, damn, it’s so awkward. Like, how do you even have a conversation with people? You know, it’s so weird, because in business, you know. I’m in real estate development, I also have a real estate sales team and all that. So we’ve been monsters on the sales side. But, you know, when I have people, reaching out to me about it, how do you do small talking? You do it so well, like, I don’t understand, like, how, you know, just, like. Well, listen, you have to try to find something with common ground with somebody totally random. Right? And what’s one of the biggest things that people can relate to or love to comment on weather. Weather, real weird, right?

You’re like, shit, what am I talking about with this person? I’m just like, hey, isn’t it a beautiful day out? Oh, how’s your day going? It’s such, like, an icebreaker to, like, lead into new conversations, you know? So I’m like, small talk is big because it leads to bigger conversations. Because based on what they say, you can then play off of it or whatever you need. Those icebreakers kind of, like, start because otherwise you can be staring at each other. Like, even when you’re on, like, an elevator or whatever, you know, you’re just, like, in the. I just say, like, random stuff that just makes people laugh, I’m like, oh, it’s an elevator party. You know, and then they just laugh, you just get, you got to find ways to break that ice, right?

So that small talk that you were talking about, I think, is absolutely, absolutely critical. Then making sense out of anything, I mean, that’s just improvised. Entrepreneurs are geniuses at, ah, this, and this is why they’re, like, the best entrepreneurs in the world. They’ll just go off on tangents on anything, and it sounds good. That’s the problem, like, it just sounds magical, what just said, you know? I totally agree with you. Those are two great ways. Two great ways to really, really sharpen your skill set. And then, like, you know, some of the most valuable things that you have learned along the way. Like, for communicators, what have been some of the most powerful lessons. Or tools or exercises alongside these two, that have helped you in business or helped your clients communicate?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely, absolutely.

Do the random word exercise every day if you shower

Pam, great question. And building on this, you know, before we even go to ball number two. You know, my encouragement to everyone listening is to take a step back and go. What are you doing with the information, with the random word exercise? Because the best way to speak is to speak. That’s always the biggest challenge when I come on a podcast is like, I’ll say the tip. People will go, oh, my God, it’s such a great tip. Pam, you really did a great job bringing Brendan on the show. Wow. I’ll look at that, and then what did they do? They do nothing. So, here’s my encouragement to all of you who are serious about this.

Go to your calendar and pick one day out of the week. And book 30 minutes in your calendar and do the bloody exercise, that’s it. Don’t overthink it, don’t go, oh, how do I do this. How do I not just, like, pick a word tissue box and just go for it? Okay. Ever since I was a kid, I cried a lot, so I had a tissue box next to me. Just, like, create a presentation. That’s it, and do that every day. If you got kids who are at least five years old listening to this, do it with them. If you got a dog, do it outside while you’re walking the dog.

If you shower, hopefully this audience showers every day. I hope so, if not, there’s a different expert on a different podcast. We’ll cover that another day with a hygiene expert. But the main idea is, if you shower, you got 50 minutes there every day. What are you doing in the shower? I doubt you got your laptop in there working. So do the random word exercise. Shampoo, shower head. Do the random word exercise. That’s really the key. And then once you’ve done that a hundred times, then go to ball two, which is the question drop.

Brenden says a lot of introverts play defense on questions

So, a lot of us, we get asked questions all the time in our life. I’m being asked questions right now in a podcast, but more so that’s more relatable to people. Is to get asked questions at work, get asked questions in job interviews, you get asked questions from your significant other. You get asked questions from your kids, from your family, from your friends. You’re always being barraged by questions. But a lot of us play defense on questions. We wait for the question to come, we get shocked by it, and then we start to panic. Instead of guessing the questions that life will bring them, I’ll tell you a quick story about this. A few years ago, when I started guesting on podcasts, I was probably 22.

Probably six or seven years ago, I sucked on shows. That’s horrible, because I didn’t know that much about speaking, I just knew enough to teach a college kid. But I didn’t know that much about executive communication. So I get on these shows, people would invite me for some reason. Didn’t really know why I didn’t have a headset back then. I would just speak on a phone, and they were like, what are you doing? Then I would get on a call with them, and then one guy asked me a question that changed my life. He said, Brendan, where does the fear of communication come from? And I looked at the guy, Pam, and I was like, Tokyo, Dubai, New York City, I don’t know, dude.

You tell me, right, so I was like, I didn’t know the answer. Like, where does it come from? I kind of messed up that question. But the reason I tell you this is after that interview ended, I told myself, you know what? Every single day, I’m going to answer a question until I’m perfect. So, day one, I said, what tips, you have for introverts on speaking? Day two is, what’s your vision for master? Day three is, what is the best advice you have to teach a CEO versus a vp? And I barraged, one question every day. Well, here’s the thing, Pam. If you do it once a day for a year, you’ll have answered 365 questions about your expertise. And you will be bulletproof in any situation, and that’s the question, draw practice that.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that. So you’re just asking yourself questions in the shower forever, wherever you may be, walking the dog. Oh, that’s amazing, you mentioned something about introverts. I want to get to that because I’m sure that there’s introverts listening. And I really want to get them out there because they need to learn how to communicate better, too. You know, so.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Totally.

Pamela Bardhi: And that was the second ball.

Brenden Kumarasamy: That’s correct, and really, the key is, to your point, there’s different ways you can practice this. But the key is really just to make it the easiest thing. So I’ll give a few scenarios that might resonate with people. Let’s say you have a corporate job right now. You’re in meetings, you’re being asked questions, right? Except this time, make a list of all the questions being asked. Hey, Brendan, what’s the status of what you’re working on? Okay, what are you working on next? Do you need my support with anything? Like, you write all those questions down, and then when you’re out of the stressful environment. And you’re just sitting at home, I don’t know, drinking a coffee on a Saturday. You reopen that question list and you go.

You know, if I get that question again, because I will. How do I answer it better? And just that mental exercise alone will ten x your game. Same thing with job interviews. A lot of us just jump into job interviews without thinking about it too much. So it’s like, okay, take a step back. You’re gonna be asked, tell me about yourself. I’m just telling you up front, it doesn’t matter what the job is. You’ll be asked, why aren’t you preparing for that question? Right, so that’s the second set. The third one for entrepreneurs is like sales calls. Look at a sales call that you got, listen to the whole thing. Write down every question you got asked and redo each one. Just doing that exercise will make you 10% more money, no doubt, so there’s some scenarios.

Pamela Bardhi: Did you know that? There’s actually. So, this is for the real estate front, but it’s for cold calls. There is an AI that analyzes your cold call and tells you what you could do better, which is crazy. Have you seen this AI yet?

Brenden Kumarasamy: I’ve heard of it, but I’ll tell you my issue with it. My issue with AI and cold calling all that stuff. Is that even if the AI is good and it’s giving you good feedback, you’re not reflecting. So because you’re not reflecting, it’s still useful? I’m not saying it’s not useful, it’s useful, but the problem is like, okay, they’ll listen, they’ll be, oh, cool. But then they won’t implement it. Versus like if you take it and the feedback is too much. Like what AI’s do is they don’t act like a coach, right?

So they’ll give you like 15 points to work on and oftentimes that becomes overwhelming and then nothing. None of the 15 points get implemented versus the way I think about it, and if you got the money, hire a coach. But really, that’s not the point. I’m driving. It’s like, take one question and do that ten times. Master it, then go to the next question, do the next question, and if you do it that way. I think you’ll win.

The key to effective communication is rapport building, right? 100%

Pamela Bardhi: That’s amazing because I’ve been noticing all this stuff, like popping up and I’m like, oh, this is so interesting. You know, on the communication patterns and stuff. I’m like, crazy. AI is getting involved in this stuff too now, which is so wild. Like you mentioned the sales calls and it ups your game and all that. My real estate team uses it and they’ve done these cold calls. They’re like, AI just beat my ass and told me, like what I needed to do. And gives you, ratio on percentages and stuff like that. This one’s real estate perspective, real estate specific. So it’s called Maverick AI, and it was just like, really interesting.

It’s just like, cool to see these things come up. But yeah, sales calls, I mean, that’s what it is. Like if. What did they say in NLP? They’re like a, no it means resistance. So the antidote to resistance, rapport building. Right? That’s the key, you know, for all entrepreneurs out there is, I get asked this all the stuff. I’m sure you get this too, as well, Brendan, you know. And it’s like you have a way of connecting with people authentically that builds rapport. Which supersedes everything, but it’s in how you communicate, right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: 100%, I completely agree, Pam. I mean, I agree with everything that you said, it’s really this idea of, how do we make incremental improvements. That it’s the same thing that we know in every other skill. It’s just, I think what I’ve brought to the industry is we’re just not doing any communication. So we’re applying it in health and fitness. Oh, you know, let’s celebrate the fact that I worked out once this week, right? Let’s celebrate the fact that I walked today. We do that, we understand it, we know how to celebrate it. But we don’t bring that same set of rules in communication where it’s just like, do the random word exercise once, celebrate.

Do it five times, celebrate. If you do the question drill once a day for a year, Pam. Which most people in their industry won’t do if you’re the person who does it, you’ll literally be the only one. And that’s why the promise I sell people is like, be the top 1% of your communicating your industry. Well, the truth is the top 1% communicating industry simply means what are you willing to do that the other 99% aren’t? That’s it, that’s simply what it is, and the question drills, just one example of that. There’s probably only one person in the industry who has done 3000 random word exercises.

Who has done 300 question drills and who has done, which is my third exercise? Video messages. Where you send 300 video messages or something like that to either employees that work for you. To colleagues at work, to your family members, to high, hot, hot, hot prospects. That you think are really close to closing or even clients on their birthdays. I don’t know anyone who does all three. So if you do all three, just doing that alone and implementing nothing else that I’ll teach you today. Puts you pretty high up on that list.

Pamela Bardhi: Oh, it also adds like, the stage of awareness. Right, and it’s almost like you’re prepping for it in your mind. And if you visualize it ahead of time, it’s going to manifest, right.

Brenden Kumarasamy: That’s the key.

Pamela Bardhi: Which is magical.

Mastertalk started as a media company. And then my business kind of exploded

And I want to talk about Master talk as well because that is something that you’ve created in the industry. Which is amazing. Like let’s dive into that I want to hear all the things when it comes to Mastertalk.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure, Pam. So for me, Mastertalk started as a media company. You know, when I was 22, I started making content on Instagram, on YouTube, on LinkedIn. Because I just felt no one was really sharing practical ideas of how to speak. Like, no one was really doing that. They were just going like, oh, you know, kind of want to get better at speaking, maybe. And a lot of people who share content on speaking, they’re often PhDs of communication. But because they’re PhDs and they’re tenured professors, they’re getting paid a big check every year to teach communication. Which is a good thing, but it’s also a bad thing.

I know a lot of those guys, and they’re all great people. But the challenge is, whereas me, I only get paid if I get people, results. And that’s a completely different mind shift. Where it’s like, okay, if what I teach is just theory, but the person doesn’t get better, I don’t get, referral. My business doesn’t scale, I don’t grow. That’s really the perspective I brought to the YouTube channels. Like, every time I share something on Instagram, on LinkedIn or stuff. I’m glad you’re enjoying the content as well, it’s like, it’s practical. You open a video on Instagram, I’m not going to go, you know, look into yourself. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but, you know, look into yourself.

Find your speaking dream and pursue it, I don’t say any of that, I go, are you doing this? You’re not doing this. Go do this. Like, that’s basically what my Instagram page is. And then the other piece that led to that, which was unexpected, in probably 2019 or something. I got my first paid client. Somebody reached out to me and said, hey, I don’t care about these videos, I got money. Just want you to coach me. Be my personal trainer and hold me to the standard that you hold yourself to in speaking. My business kind of exploded, and then I quit my job in 2021, and, yeah, it’s cool. I’m grateful. Yeah, life’s a gift.

Pamela Bardhi: That’s amazing.

Your podcast is about underdog, so being an underdog is a gift

And what’s been, like, the biggest piece of advice that has been or lesson that has been the greatest for you in your experience. Could be, you know, obviously in the communication realm, like anything, life, personal, business.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Totally, Pam, I mean, since your podcast is about underdog, I had every card stacked against me. The only card I didn’t have stacked against me is that I wasn’t born in a third world country. But everything else, I was pretty stacked, I mean, my dad was an alcoholic. I come from a very low middle income household, I don’t look the part at all. I’m a super young kid. Started my first CEO client, I got, paid client, I was 22, right? My average client today is 15 years older than I am, I have a disability in my left arm. Like, it’s crooked, right? I spoke my whole life in a language I didn’t know because I’m born in Montreal.

You need to know how to speak French, so I speak three languages today, which is great. But, you know, in school I’m speaking in French, and I grew up hating public speaking. I have a degree that I finished, by the way, in accounting, like, I have a degree in accounting. So it’s like the opposite of what you would think. And my name’s hard to spell, too, so why in the world should I be winning in speaking? Like, I have no business being a communication coach? That’s really where I think my underdog mentality came in, which is the opposite is also true, is what? Because there’s two sides to a coin, so all that is true, what I said, crooked arm, all the stuff.

But what if I did become an exceptional communicator? I became the ideal that people thrive towards. Well, then I think the world would do better. Because the problem, Dale Carnegie, he’s a handsome guy. He looks, I’m a cute guy, too. I’m not as I’m attracted to, but I meant I’m in the sense, like, he looks too perfect, right? He’s got his nice glasses on, he’s got his nice suit on. Whereas I’m a kid who’s got a crooked left arm. So when I’m coaching my CEO of a $5 million company, what I challenge them on, is they go. They’re like, I don’t want to do random work, I go, cool, John.

I’m a little kid living in my mom’s basement who’s making videos that are ten times better than his. What’s your excuse? And he goes, oh, shit, and then he starts doing random work. I think a lot of my story, really, the lesson in all of this, I got a bunch of lessons. But speaking into being an underdog is, I think being an underdog is a gift. I think banner underdog is a great thing, I think it’s amazing. Because that chip on your shoulder forces you to attain or at least have resistance to higher degrees of pain.

Pamela Bardhi: Right?

Brenden Kumarasamy: You’re more tolerant to higher degrees of pain, you’re used to being spit in your face. So when things start working, you’re unbeatable, right? This is where my underdog mentality comes into yes. Did I struggle the first couple years of business, absolutely. Nobody took me seriously, nobody. Execs would not take me seriously, so instead of whining about it, what did I do? I smiled and I said, you know what? Well, look, John, you tried three other speech coaches and they didn’t work, you’re right. Why would you have any business hiring me? How about we do this? I’ll coach you for 60 minutes and you tell me at the end of the call if I’m worth my salt for free. And he said, well, I can’t say no to that. After six, after 60 minutes.

They’re like, okay, I think, Brendan really put me on the firecracker, I should pay him what he’s worth. That’s how I built my book. And now that I’m successful, now, right now that I’m doing well, now life’s a gift. Because now I can look back at my achievements, even as a 28 year old. Even what I’ve accomplished so much already, and I can look back at my life and say. I have earned my keep, I earned my book of business. So now when I go to my clients and they’re not willing to do something, they take action really fast. Because they know I’m willing to do what they’re more than what they’re willing to do. That pushes them to be really what I preach and what I’ve really built my brand around. Which is being the best in the world at what you do.

Pamela Bardhi: I absolutely love that there’s something to be said about the underdog, right? Like, it’s like you said that chip on your shoulder. It’s almost like we’re used to chaos and we’re used to figuring it out and we’re used to all of that. We’re used to all of it, so nothing can really break our mentality. So it’s like we’re going to keep going, we’re resilient like that. When we hit success, we’re just going to keep going and keep going and keep plowing and keep going. That’s the name of the game and that’s the beauty in it, so I absolutely love that you shared that. Thank you so, so much, Brennan, I love hearing that story.

You came from a restaurant background and went into real estate. You became very successful

But I didn’t know about the disability and stuff. Like, you know, it’s, but people think this stuff is built overnight. And that’s the whole reason I started this podcast, because, you know, everyone would look at my success. I’m like, guys, you didn’t think about when I was ten years old, like, working in the restaurant biz, right? But, like, you’re looking at everything I’ve done now. The Forbes, the Time magazine, that this, that, like, all the fancy shit, right?

Like, now you see all the big stuff, but it’s like, it started at such a young point. And the mental resilience you had to build to break through the rejection and break through the fears. Through the people, sometimes even in your own family, saying, are you sure you should be doing that? I think you should stick to this, or I think you should stick to this. So, like, you know, it’s like one of those things. It’s like, once you break through those barriers, you’re, like, untouched, because it’s like nothing can stop you, period.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Totally, right? That’s why, from your story, Pamdan, I am not surprised at all. You became very successful. And the reason is because the restaurant business is the hardest bloody business in the game. All of the businesses, 7% profit margin on average, razor thin, you make one mistake, you lose. Even if you do everything right, you can still probably lose, and that mentality. So when you switch to opportunity vehicles and you went to real estate, I mean, you’re killed. Real estate, like, real estate’s a completely different opportunity, there’s a lot more winners. The margins are a lot higher, right. There’s a lot more deal flow, so, yeah. Not surprised that you were successful and you came from the restaurant background.

Pamela Bardhi: Thank you so much. It’s just, you know, it’s all a journey, it’s all a journey. But one step leads you to the other. So I just. I love that you asked that CEO that question, it’s like, hey, I’m in my mom’s basement. I’ve got this disability. What’s your excuse? Like, damn. Damn, you set that client on fire that day, man, I love that. Oh, man.

What would your older self tell your younger self about life, business

Brendan, this is my favorite question, and I always save the best for last, but. And this may tie into what you’ve said already, maybe something different. Who knows? What would your older self tell your younger self based on what you know now? Life, business, anything?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah. What, my current self tell my younger self? I would say it doesn’t matter, it’s a Mark Twain quote that I really love. It doesn’t matter what cards are dealt. Only how you paint the game and to be very unemotional about the cards that you’re dealt. So, for example, to give the opposite view. Which I’m sure you never heard on this podcast, like, there’s pros and cons of being a net Bo baby, too, right? Like, there’s a lot of pros. You have a lot of capital to work with, you have a lot of established connections in the industry. But the con is, it doesn’t matter what you achieve in your life. People will always, accredit your success to somebody else. Right? That’s one. And two. 

You might grow up a little weaker because you had a lot more things, but it’s not good nor bad. It’s just what is right. And you just have to optimize against it, you just have to live with the idea of that. Hey, when I make it, people will still cry. I have to be okay with that, even if I worked hard for it. It’s, same thing with an underdog. There’s pros and cons, too, you know, we talked about the pros, but there’s also cons. Huge fail rate, you have a lot of limiting beliefs around money. Your mindset is totally off, you don’t think you could make it because most of your family hasn’t made it. So how are you supposed to be the first one? But the benefit is, when you make it, you become a very beautiful rags to riches story.

But the unfortunate reality is most of them don’t become that story. So what is the point? I think the point that I would tell my younger self is, be less emotional, be emotional about the human experience. Like, love people, right? Be with people. That’s a beautiful thing, be nice to waiters, be nice to every human being. But be unemotional about what it takes to get the outcome. Don’t be emotional about, oh, why did this happen to me? Why? That doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the goalpost. Whatever cards you’re dealt, you just have to figure out to win your hand of poker, and that’s all that matters.

Pamela Bardhi: Amen, I love that. Brendan, man, so many golden nuggets you’ve sprinkled throughout this whole interview, which I absolutely love. I absolutely love. And I’m sure there’s people that say, oh, man, they can’t wait to connect with you.

Brenden: Instagram is the easiest way to keep in touch

Before we get to that, though, what’s up in your world in the next few months? Like, what’s going on, Brendan? What are you up to? I think you mentioned you were, some travel, some cool stuff. What’s happening in your world?

Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure, Pam, I mean, lots of amazing things happening. Got amazing coaching, business, media business. I’m travelling to Tokyo on Monday, which I’m super excited about. So it’s going to be super fun. But, you know, I would say for me, the easiest way to keep in touch and all that stuff. Is definitely Instagram to master your talk. Y o u r, for master, your talk. I can’t call my handles my name or except for LinkedIn, it’s impossible to find me. Just send me a dm there and let me know that you listen to the podcast. I’ll reply to you myself.

Pamela Bardhi: You are magical. Brennan Mint, thank you so much for all the nuggets you dropped through the whole interview and just everything. I’m so excited to keep up with you on Instagram and see all the things right. When you said Tokyo, I just. My mind went to that song from fast and furious, you know, it’s like.

Brenden Kumarasamy: I love that song.

Pamela Bardhi: I can’t wait to go someday. No, but seriously, thank you so much for all of the tips. Loved hearing your journey and how you built everything from the ground up and being so young and resilient. And just like, having at it and, like, where it’s led you to now is so inspiring, Brendan. So thank you so much, my friend. I’m so grateful for you.

Brenden Kumarasamy: Grateful for you, my friend. Thanks, pap.

Pamela Bardhi: Thank you.

Underdogs and the dogs. Always dropping on Thursdays. Catch us next week

So that’s it for today’s episode of Underdog. Catch us next week. Always dropping on Thursdays. And remember, if you’re interested in real estate or want to learn how to create more money and magic in your life. Check out meetwithpamela.com and let’s chat. Sending you so, so much love.