Jon Hogue on Revolutionizing Homeless Support Through North Star Revolution

Pamela Bardhi: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Underdog Podcast. Today I have an incredible guest here with me, Dr. John Hogue. How are you, my friend?

Jon Hogue: Very good, Very good. Spring is almost here.

Pamela Bardhi: Oh, my goodness. John, I am so excited. Like, we were just talking about this right before we got on. I am so excited to get into you and your story. because when I visited you, I think it was about a month ago, at the shelter. I was just so blown away with how you get things done. and how you manifest the way that you do. 

And you’re like a mover and shaker, and if you say something, it gets done immediately. It’s like the Midas touch. which I admire, which I admire so much. so I’m just so excited to dive into your story today and hear about all about. like, where you’ve been, where you’re going, and what you’re up to in the world.

Jon Hogue: Wonderful.

Pamela Bardhi: I like to reel it all the way back because I know a lot of things stem from, from childhood. Right. So I’m curious as a kid growing up, like, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Jon Hogue: I grew up in a small town, the western mass right on the New York state border. So population 450, my elementary school, K through 8. My, my class was 7, 7, 7, 7 kids. so very small. And then for high school, I got busd to New York right over the border. because, my town was so small they didn’t have a high school. 

So that’s how I grew up. in the woods, you know, dirt bikings, snowmobiling, you know, playing soccer. You on the soccer team? from when I was little. You. That was my beginning, you know, real, wholesome, real. some might say simple or boring. But I look back at it now and it was phenomenal.

Pamela Bardhi: That’s amazing. And so growing up, like, what was the dream for you? Like, what did Jon be?

Jon Hogue: I don’t think John really knew. You know, when I was in high school,how sometimes they have you do. those little surveys to figure out what you’re most suited for for a profession. So I did that at my high school. and I was supposed to be a funeral, director. That’s what the survey said. I don’t know why. 

And in high school, I told my guidance Counselor that I wanted to do some work in psychology. And he was like, well, there’s no money in that. That was his response to me. But, you know, so I left the small town and went to Fitchburg, State University in Fitchburg, Mass. that’s what got me up in the north central Mass area.

Pamela Bardhi: Amazing. And college did you. Psychology as a major.

Jon Hogue: My bachelor’s is in psychology. Yeah, I had a lot of fun with it. That was exciting. But I wasn’t try into wanting to do counseling. I could do it, but it wasn’t like what I was looking for. I was still trying to find my way with what I was going to do with my life kind of thing. And then an internship at the end of Fittsburg, State got me to working with at risk kids and their families. in residential treatment facilities, psychiatric hospitals, special, IEPs and schools and whatnot. Basically helping. 

That’s basically what it was. I did direct care for six or seven years, working with troubled boys. so a real tough job. Some of the toughest kids in the state. You know, it was hard, but I knew I wanted to make more of an impact. I still didn’t know how, so I just worked my way up the ranks. You becoming a supervisor, then a director. running my own programs and making an impact. But also running your own programs, you’re like your own boss. I like that. that’s really where I am today is I do this similar thing where, yeah, I still answer to a board of directors. but day to day, it’s my show. Yeah.

Pamela Bardhi: Amazing, Jon. That’s amazing.

Your teenage years can either make you or destroy you, depending on who you surround

Well, with the At Risk too. because again, this is one of the things that I’m super passionate about too, is really the youth. It’s like your teenage years can either make you or destroy you. depending on your life choices and who you surround yourself with. Right.

Jon Hogue: No, absolutely. And it’s not your fault. As a child, you don’t have control. You know, you are where you live. You are what either your family or whoever’s taking care of you. is offering you and bringing you along for basic needs. but also for psychological and emotional growth. what’s it all about? It’s about hope. Hope for a better day, Hope to fulfill your dreams, hope to do something with their life, Build relationships, whatever you want to do. But if somebody crushes you early, when you’re, young. and they don’t allow you to dream, allow you to have hope. that’s when it gets really ugly.

Pamela Bardhi: Right. And when you were dealing with the youth, like you were saying like the worst in the state. what were some of the things that actually helped? Because I know there’s probably people listening right now. that might have difficult teenagers or know or have so family that’s struggling or like that. What would be like, what are some of your kind of observations and advice when it comes to that?

Jon Hogue: Well, at risk use supporting them, talking to them, treating them like human beings. valuing, making them feel valued as people, as contributors,. not crushing their dreams, like I said earlier, taking care of their basic needs too. Because the kids shouldn’t have to worry about where their next meal is coming from. or are they going to have a roof over their head tonight. or do I have shoes to go to school with? Kids shouldn’t have to wrestle with that. 

And often they do, unfortunately. So the best thing you can do is be consistent with them. hang in with them, talk to them, getting involved in their life. If kids are left to their own devices as they became teenagers. they’ll fall in with a crowd, maybe a negative crowd or a mentor. But a mentor can be a good mentor or a bad mentor. And if they go the wrong route or get involved in the gang. their best friend is a criminal, like stealing things, they’re going to follow.  it becomes their peer group. So you really got to help them navigate the world to a positive place.

Pamela Bardhi: 100%.

Who inspired you and impacted you the most to create the amazing John

And two, John, to kind of dive in with you. because I’m so curious, like, who inspired you and impacted you the most to create this amazing John that we know today?

Jon Hogue: Well, where I grew up, I think was a big part of it. You know, being in the country there wasn’t a lot of violence, There wasn’t a lot of crime. There was a lot of wholesome, wholesomeness and having fun. And like I said, some people might see the existence as boring. You know, there was no stores in my town, There was no gas stations in my town. we had to drive 25 minutes to get groceries. 

the only thing that was in my town was Jimney Peak ski area. which became quite a big, big deal. so people can check that out. It’s a nice place. I did every job under the sun there. So my grandfather was a mentor to me. He, was a hard worker, ran his own farm and worked at General Electric. and did whatever it took to get by. And just in the country, people are just trying to get by. trying to have A happy life and try to have your family around here.

So he was a big mentor to me. Some soccer coaches I had over the years, some early teachers. Because I told you my elementary school was so small. You got to know the teachers really well, you know what I mean? And so, my fourth and fifth grade teacher, I still talk to him to this day. He lives in Florida. So he’s good guy. He used to come in on Saturdays on his own time to play street hockey with us.

Pamela Bardhi: Yeah, no, it’s like those the biggest difference. And they hold the most critical role in society and I don’t understand why. They’re the most underpaid.

Jon Hogue: Right. No, exactly. Everything costs too much. and it’s a hard road and they should be paid more. They have direct impact on kids lives every day.

Pamela Bardhi: Every single day. So it’s amazing to hear that that’s who played a big role for you too, you know?

Jon Hogue: Yeah. O yeah. In my elementary school, we used to have two grades in each class. So it would d be like seventh and eighth graders. would be in the same room with a chalkboard on wheels that divided the two classes. So the teacher would go to one side, do a lesson, lead the kids to do some homework or exercises. then walk around the chalkboard and then teach the other grade.

Pamela Bardhi: So I went to a super small Catholic, middle school. And so we had seventh and eighth grade classes sometimes combined too. So it was like, because the class was so small, there was like 20 of us between the two grades. Amazing. And I think there’s something to be said too. when you inform those relationships with those teachers. it really does make a lasting impact. So I always liked the smaller schools. because you had that individualized kind of attention and everything like that. So I love that, Jon. I love that.

Throughout your life experience what have been some of the biggest challenges that you faced

And throughout your life experience. what have been some of the biggest challenges that you faced. and how have you been able to pivot or overcome in those ways?

Jon Hogue: sort of my personality is to grind it out, I don’t give up. People have called me a bulldozer or a pit bull that when I latch onto an idea, I bring it to fruition. Whatever it is, whatever obstacle I hit, I figure out how to go over it. go around it or go through it, you know. And I also don’t get discouraged when I hear no know. because in our business, not everything works out. 

Even if you are proactive, even if you have the best laid plans. sometimes it just doesn’t work. so you can’t let that get you down and make you all depressed about it. Move on. Let’s get on to the next thing. I’m also a big proponent of having a lot of irons in the fire. So if you got five or six things percol. maybe you’ll get one or two of them to work out. Some will be dead ends, but that’s okay. You know, you learn from those dead ends, you know, so that’s sort of how I am. 

And I also try to use people around me. you know, you can’t know everything. So I bring in people that know more in other areas that. And they’re my tools. There’s no way that I can know everything about housing and building. because there’s experts out there in so many different realms. So I’m sure at some point we’ll be talking about the project that I’m working on, at North Star right now. But you have to assemble a strong team. If you don’t, you’re working really too hard. you got to be smart and strategic.

North Star Shelter in Massachusetts is a model for helping homeless people find housing

Pamela Bardhi: Amen, John. And one of the things when I met you and you told me the story of the shelter. and how that came to be, I just. You have to tell that story again, because what you’ve done is absolutely tremendous. and it serves as a model for people listening. or people who are inspired to help with transitional housing. I know it’s one of my passions and something that I want to expand upon. to help as many people as possible. 

So we’love to hear how you even got in, how you’re building it out, getting into your first project. and then really what your vision is for the future. Because all of that, I mean, your tenacity, it’s your drive that’s made all these things possible. And I remember walking through the shelter amazed. at how well done everything was and how beautiful it was.in my mind, I was like, I wish we could take this and replicate this a thousand times over. because so many people would be helped as a result of that. So I would love to hear it in detail. How did you get involved with North Star then? Up until now?

Jon Hogue: So for like, 35 years or so, I worked with, at risk youth, running various different programs. I’ve worked at five or six different agencies throughout that time. I worked with boys, I’ve worked with girls. I’worked co ed programs, young, old, foster. So the whole gamut. Then I got laid off, I was like, okay. And I was looking for a job, and it was a tough time. It was well before COVID but I just kept looking, kept looking. 

then this agency knocked at my door and said, hey, we have a position. And what it was, the name of the agency was Monteust Interfaith Hospitality Network. And I had no idea what the heck that was. I thought it might be a religious organization. So I studied the Bible before the interview. because I didn’t know, you know, I hadn’t been to church since I was like 12. You know, that’s a true story. I did study the Bible. what it was was it was a small grassroots nonprofit that ran a shelter. Well, the early days of Montachusa Interfaith. what the model was having a coalition of churches. 

There was, they got 10 churches together saying, hey, let’s have homeless families in our. In our community sleep at the churches. because they’re empty at night. You know, let’s use the buildings. It made sense on some level. whenever, the homeless families would stay at the church, the congregation would help feed them. would help support them, help them find clothes, help the kids, whatever. After a week, the families would have to pack up and go to the next church in the coalition. 

And it just went like that. Well, that’s hard on the families to keep being uprooted when they’re already homeless. but I can understand people did it out, the goodness of their hearts trying to not like it’d sleep outside. but pretty soon the model got kaboshed. and the agency almost ceased to exist. because fire codes didn’t like people sleeping in churches in Massachusetts. because many don’t have fire, sprinkler systems. So they felt it dangerous.

 Also, at the same time, when Monachusa interfaith was getting off the ground. This was around 2002, 2003. The Station nightclub fire happened in Rhode island at that same timef frame. So all firefighters were leery and didn’t want anything happening, negative on their watch. So that’s why they were very conservative. Monachusetts, what they did was they tried to find buildings that were grandfathered by the fire department. Church rectories, convents, whatever type buildings they could get. and they were renting them. but these buildings were in rough shape.

 I mean, really rough shape. Volunteers have told me stories where when it rained hard. they would have to be dumping out 55 gallon drums that were collecting the rain. That’s how bad it was. But it was all they Had. It’s better than nothing, right? So Fast forward to 2015. I, was hired and at that time the shelter was in Fitchburg, Mass. On a street that was very dangerous. A lot of drugs, not conducive to children and family shelter, no parking for the volunteers. You know, it was just negative, negative, negative. But it was all they could find because many landlords. they don’t want a shelter running in their buildings. Come on. 

You know, and I understand that. So after I’d been at the agency two weeks and my office was in the basement of a church that was close to the shelter. after two weeks I said, this isn’t right. We got to do something. We got to change this. We got to get our own building. Now, Montea Interfaith had been looking for their own building for two years prior to me coming. They had no money and they couldn’t find a building. Because when you have no money. and you don’t have hope and vision because how are you going to do it? 

Well, I sort of threw caution to the wind. and started writing letters to the community saying. if I find an old building, will you help me fix it up? That was my angle. I had no money to buy buildings. Don’t get me wrong, I was faking it until I could make it. What? One person answered my cold, letters that I mailed out in the community. and they contacted the local community foundation in United Way. and they said, hey, who’s this John Ho guy? 

 

You should we try to help him, this benefactor. And two days before, I had gone down and introduced myself to the folks. at the United Way and the community Foundation. So I’d only met them two days earlier. And the CEO at the time of the United Way and the Community foundation back to me and said I just met him last week. He seems like a stand up guy. So the benefactor said, all right, game on. I’ll give some money to fix a building up. But we still had to find a building. So we found a building in Lemonster, the one that you walked through. it was for sale.

 It was a single family home and we were going to take out a mortgage. North Star Maachuseta, Interfaith Hospitality Network changed their name to North Star Family Services. We did that for marketing reasons so you could understand what the services were. because Monachusetts just didn’t tell you the story. we did that in 2019. So we saw this building and, we were going to take out a mortgage. But between you and me and whoever’s listening to this. 

We couldn’t pay the monthly mortgage. We didn’t have any money. but we were still going to have to do it and I was going to have to figure it out. And one of the local banks, give them credit, they were going to give us a mortgage. because they knew that we were critical to the community. So two days before the, signing of the mortgage. I went back to the benefactor that said that they would give us some money. to fix the building up if I found one. And I said, thank you so much for being willing to give us 150, 200,000 do to fix up the, a building. I said, why don’t you buy the building for us too?

Hal says he trusted God with the vision to build the shelter

And he did. So the benefactor bought the building. gave us some money to fix it up. I wrote a bunch of grants and that’s how we got that building, which is so amazing.

Pamela Bardhi: When you told me that story, I had chillose everywhere. because I was like, you didn’t know how you were going to do it. But like, that’s, that is the perfect example of faith right there where it’s like. like you could see the vision. You trusted God with it and you said, I’m going to make this happen in one way or you surrendered.

Jon Hogue: And it’s very nerve wracking because you don’t know how it’s going to work out.  but something was driving me that it was the right thing to do. And that’s kind of my guiding light. What’s the right thing to do for people, for kids, for families, for employees? You got to have high standards or high, expectations and try to meet them. If you fall a little short, not the end of the world. but you strove for better. and I knew that we needed better. because what I inherited when I started wasn’t good enough. 

People were working as hard as they could. I said, no, we got to do something better. And so that’s our philosophy at the shelter and at the whole agency. Now we don’t, we treat families, as equals. Know they’re people just like you and me so know when they come into the shelter. they get everything new. New sheets, new pillows, welcome basket, new towels. Because who wants to inherit things that 20 other families used? You just don’t. I wouldn’t want to. Now there is the philosophy of saying, well, it’s better than nothing. Yeah, I can hear that philosophy. 

 

We can do better. We can do better so we try to welcome the families into the shelter and meet them. where they’re at, what do they need? Because every family is different. there’s some common threads between, homeless families for sure. but they’re their own. They have their own dynamics. Every family’s got their own right. You know, they call it baggage, call it, you know, your upbringing. we all have our own.

 So we try to meet them where they are and support them in any way we can. and ever since I got the building, that shelter building. we’ve just been building on that, I’ve wrote probably over $15 million worth of grants over the last ten years. and we’ve, you know, made that shelter shine. You know, we want it impressive. We want it to be to feel like a home. We want it to feel comfortable. some people say, oh, you’ve made it too comfortable. 

People don’t want to leave. And I can hear that, but should I lower my standards and lower the standards for them. just because they might like it? No. Our staff work every day with the families to work towards their self sufficiency. And what’s their goals, where do they want to go, what’s important to them? that’s how we roll there. That’s how we roll. what ended up happening though is I had only worked there two years, three years. we were having trouble finding apartments for people to move out of. I mean, move into when they left the shelter. 

So people were getting log jammed at the shelter because the need was so great. We always have a waiting list of 75 families deep. Always. and shelter, the people that we serve at the shelter are local families. So Fitchburg, Lemonster, the surrounding towns. It’s not, a state run shelter or state funded shelter. which makes it hard to fundraise. Every year we have to fundraise hard, to keep in operation. it’s like pushing our boer up, up a steep mountain. but the plus side is that the state can’t tell us what to do. because they don’t fund us. Okay? 

And the families that work with us are not from all over the state. And here’s the problem or the struggle. If we took in families from Springfield, from Boston, from Hal, we’pulling them out of their community. their support system, maybe their job, kids ripping them out of their schools. if they had, primary care physicians, all of it, they have to start over. They come to the shelter, we help them get jobs that are local and this and that. But then if they’re going to move back to Boston or move back to Havel. it’s all for nothing. 

We bought them time is all we did. But then they’re back to square one again. So that’s why we like to work with local families. because they will transition into the local community. so we worked really hard at that. but we couldn’t find apartments. The prices are so crazy. Well, Boston is insanity. how does the average family do it? They don’t. So we got approached by the local area. they said, jon, you always have a waiting list. You should build a second shelter. Kind of like what you were saying, you know, replicate.

Pamela Bardhi: Yes.

Jon Hogue: Our model could, it be replicated, yes. but it’s very labor intensive. You’re not going to get too many people. that are going to raise their hand and do what I do. Because to write all those grants and to go on Hope in a Prayer. and figuring it out365, days a year, nobody’s gonna wa want toa sign up for that job. Okay. Cause that’s hard. It’s a hard road. So the model, yes, it’s beautiful. The program, I think, is extraordinary. 

But to replicate it, it’s hard. It’s hard. especially within the same agency. Could somebody replicate it, in some other cities somewhere? Sure, sure, they could if they wanted to sign up for all of what I do. So I really thought about it with our management team. and with our board of directors and said, shelters are great. They’re necessary in our world nowadays. but what is the solution to homelessness for families?

John Covent is building affordable housing for homeless families in Massachusetts

What? You know, so we really thought about that. Homeless families need homes. That’s what makes them homeless. So I said, well, then let’s build some homes. Well, as soon as I had that out of my mouth, people are saying, that’s impossible, Jon. You can’t do it, You don’t have any experience being a housing developer. You don’t have any money to do so. so that’s a pipe dream. Move on. Don’t try to go down that road. It’s too hard. Well, just like the shelter building. 

When I was hunting for the shelter building, and that was seemingly impossible. This was the new challenge. How do you do it? I had to teach myself through other people. How do you build housing in Massachusetts? Especially with state m getting some state money and, running a capital campaign in the local community. how to get ARPA money that was out there. We started the project seven years ago. and the project is building 15 new apartments right down the street from the shelter.

 it’s taken seven years and the building’s still not done. Like that’s how long this is taken. Part of it it’s because that’s the process and housing’s hard. Part of it is, we’re very small shop. I mean, it was really me and one other person, full timer that pulled this off. So that’s the bandwidth.  but we figured it out. We surrounded ourselves with a strong team. We carefully chose construction, contractor, no general contractor. got some good consultants to work with us, and that’s what’s made it possible. raise $9 million and the building will be done in, Memorial Day.

Pamela Bardhi: In increible job. one of the biggest things when you were re mentioning you’re not state funded. and you’ve done this all privately and you’ve built everything, you’ve built basically from your grid.. And continuing to build it, I mean, I just find that so tremendous, truly. And then to go ahead and do develop because development is so hard. let alone housing development and dealing with the state with affordable tax credit. all’s like wholeher. 

So I commend you tremendously for just ging the way forward. and finding a way even when it seems impossible. Because that is the definition of an underdog. Like, you’re like, oh, yeah, really? You’re telling me it’s going to be impossible? Amazing. Let me find a way.

Jon Hogue: I had many people say to me, it can’t be done. You can’t do it. and you know, on the surface, we were a small nonprofit. We didn’t have any money, we didn’t know what we were doing at the beginning. we didn’t have any contacts. And so we baby stepped it, we learned along the way. If we hit a roadck blockk, we went around it, we went over it, we went through it. and we did that over and over and over again. 

And good things are coming from it and what did, what drove it. It’s the right thing to do. It’s what is needed for families in Massachusetts. There’s not enough for cruey affordable housing. and it needs to happen, and we need to keep replicating it like you were saying. But many people probably couldn’t pull it off. because it takes some serious resolve and not giving up. 

And you know, I wasn’t GR great before this process. but now I am, because it’s stressful. It’s stressful not knowing how to pay, you need to get a civil engineer on board. but you don’t have no money. What do you do? You got to get creative. You got to have faith, like you said, and hope. then try to be strategic. Covid hit right when we were just starting to do some of the prevelopment work. And everybody told me, john, you got to stop the project. 

You know, we could risk losing, the shelter. if I didn’t have the money and you had to dig into the operation money. I said, you know what, Covid? Yes, it’s awful. Nobody knew what we were dealing with at the beginning. It was scary for everybody. And my decision was to step on the gas. because I knew in my mind and, in my heart that money was going to flow out of the federal government to attacked this problem.

 And it did. ARPA money was fed through the states, and we got in on that. we got some market money. So it’s exciting. The building will be done, in May of this year. Fifteen new apartments, all of them are subsidized. so families will only be charged what they can afford based on their salary and their income. And one we more re done. We’re going to be looking to the next project. I’ve already started laying the groundwork. because it has to be done over and over and over again. As you know.

Pamela Bardhi: Jon, I mean, I really just want to commend you because what you’re creating for these families. I mean, epigenetics has told us through research that our environment shapes our DNA structure. And you’re providing these, like, the shelter was immaculate when I was there. and the new building, when you showed me the renderings, is going to be beautiful. So you are literally changing lives through what you’re creating. 

And I hope you realize how much impact you’re having on the world. So I thank and I honor you. And we’ve gotta find a way to help you replicate this some way somehow. because the world needs it more than ever. especially the transitional housing. This is the demographic that really like. it could make or break their entire life in generations for them to come. So I just strongly commend you on this. and I’m so excited to see everything that comes from the future future plan.

Jon Hogue: Thank you.

Pamela Bardhi: We’ll talk about the future plans in a second.

Tell your younger self what you would tell your older self

But one of my favorite questions, and I always sa these the best for last. what would your Older self. Tell your younger self based on what you know now. And it could be business, it could be personal, it could be whatever it is that you want. What would you say to the younger you?

Jon Hogue: Work smarter, not harder. Use your brain, think strategically. Use your get to know people. Networking is huge. Early in my career, I didn’t like doing it. It was out of my comfort zone. I’m not you. You’re very gregarious and out there and that’s the opposite of me. Ok. But I’ve had to lend myself closer to how you operate. because that’s how you build alliances. that’s how you build, collaborations and coalitions. and that’s how you find resources to get done whatever your objective is.

 I’ve gotten good at that. I heard about youth just in passing and track you down. and got to know you out of nowhere. I emailed you cold as you remember. but that’s what I do now. do a lot of research and find out what makes people tick. see if it fits into what I mean. And it’s not what I need personally. It’s to get to the goal for families now. It’s all focused on that.

Pamela Bardhi: I love that so much about you, Jon. I mean, just like your heart and your selflessness is so tremendous. and it’s so parent with all the work that you’ve done. So I truly, it’s an honor and I’m just so proud of you. and I hope that you, I know you get stuck in the routine a lot, right? 

So I hope that you get to, celebrate at least a little bit of like. how far you’ve come and how many lives you’ve impacted to date. Cause I know sometimes like life just keeps going. but hope you get like just a little bit of time to celebrate that and what’s coming. Because truly you’re making a huge difference. and I’m so grateful for you and I’m so excited to hear about the future.

John Lemmin says keeping people housed is easier than becoming homeless again

Like, okay, so the new project is getting done within by May. Now what’s next you for you for North Star? Like, what’s the vision moving forward?

Jon Hogue: goal or milestone is to. Yes, we finish. We’ll finish the building soon. but I want to run it right. Before the families just building, the bricks and mortar. Doesn’t mean that’your job’s done. because the program that we’re building in this housing is sor supportive. So families are going to have struggles that come up in the future. We want to Be there for them. Because keeping them housed is easier than somebody becoming homeless. and traumatized once again. then trying to resurrect and help people climb back to, being self sufficient. It’s a heavy lift for them and for us. 

So we got to keep people housed and when they hit a roadblock. give them resources, give them referral. whatever they need to stay put. Because when you lose your house, your life goes down, you lose your safety, your security. You don’t have a fridge to store food. so you’re not food secure anymore. You know, you get distrustful of everything, your belongings, what happens to them. 

I mean, and then your children are scared. so we have to, we all need that and we think of it as a luxury. Like, I feel very fortunate myself, and you probably do too. you have a home or apartment or whatever and you have a safe place to go back to at night. Not everybody has that. And it’s critical, it’s critical for development and just having a decent life.

Pamela Bardhi: 100% will put you in survival mode, right? If you can’t meet, you can’t think about anything beyond that. You’re like, how are we going to eat tomorrow? So like, it doesn’t allow you to thrive and grow. because you’re so focused on how am I gon to make sure that I eat. how do I make sure I’m safe? Right? The body goes into that fight or flight and that’s So oh man.

Jon Hogue: Yeah. Then we wonder why substance abuse could happen or crime could happen. You know, people get desperate. You know, if I was homeless and I needed to feed my kids and I didn’t have any money. I’d feed my kids somehow and I’d probably be doing things that I shouldn’t be doing. but I’m looking out for my kids, like you said, survival, it’s getting by.

So, yeah, it’s tough.we need to replicate it more and more and more. Our governor fairly recently said that we need to build 222,000 more units in the next 10 years. And I believe that, I believe that. because in our region, there isn’t enough apartments that people can even think about, paying the rents. They can’t. So yeah, it’s tough, it’s tough.

Pamela Bardhi: I’re going toa make it happen.

Jon Hogue: Know, it as much as I can. But it’the funding is tough as trying to piece it together, trying to Figure it out. You try to find like minded people that truly care about doing something right. and then you run into people that all they want to do is make a huge profit. And that’s hard because it’s hard to always do the right thing. then make a lot of money. They don’t always jive with each other. You’ve got let your heart drive you to do the right thing and the money will come. it’ll work itself out. at least that’s the way I think of it, ablutely.

Pamela Bardhi: And I’m just so excited for everything that’s coming. I’m sure we’re going to have some awesome collaboration together and amongst other developers as well. Kind of bringing a whole almost coalition together to continue on this mission. because it’s so important. and I’m just so grateful to met you. I’m sure everyone who’s listening right now is like, hey, how can we support John? How can we support North Star? So where can we find you, my friend? The websites drop any websites, socials, whatever.

Jon Hogue: Yeah, well, we’re based in Lemonser, Mass. Okay. So, we have a website. The name of the agency is North Star Family Services. and we’re in lanminister. Phone number is 9 and 784-661-704. We do have a website. It’s North Star fs.org.

Pamela Bardhi: That’S amazing.

Jon Hogue: Amazing. Or they can contact you and you can call me.

Pamela Bardhi: Love that. I love that. John, you are amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story, like everything. That’s what you’re up to with North Star. I’m just so excited to see how it unfolds. I think you’ve gotten through the hardest pieces. Now it’s about kind of like scaling that out. and I think you’re bringing in and attracting all the right people. to make some magic happen for so many families. So I thank you, I honor you and I’m so excited to see what’s next.

Jon Hogue: Gotta get you out to see the building. What, was it raining the day you visited or something? Yeah, yeah. Well, if you’re ever in the area, let me know and we can swing down.

Pamela Bardhi: Absolutely. you know, I’m there. I would 100% love that.

Jon Hogue: Would 100% do it.

Pamela Bardhi: And I’ll be there at the ribbon cutting too.

Jon Hogue: Absolutely. I’ll get you the details. And I appreciate you having me, on your podcast. This is exciting and I thank you.

Pamela Bardhi: I appreciate you. Amazing.

Underdog is always dropping on Thursdays. 

Thank you.

Jon Hogue: All right, have a good day.

Pamela Bardhi: So that’s it for today’s episode of Underdog. catch us next week. Always dropping on Thursdays. And remember, if you’re interested in real estate. or want to learn how to create more money and magic in your life. check out meet with Pamela.com and let’s chat. Sending you so, so much love.